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stonecold  
#1 Posted : 05 October 2015 12:52:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Hello, Is there any specific safe distance or measurement that a combustible. e.g pallets of cardboard should be stored away from a potential ignition source e.g large electrical distribution board. (warehouse) I am aware that its good practice to keep combustibles away from sources of ignition, but am interested to know if there is any specific distance quoted in any guidance, I have had a quick look today and cant seem to find anything.
Safety Smurf  
#2 Posted : 05 October 2015 14:35:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

I'd be looking for 4ft but that's only for an objective standard to audit against. I believe there may have been figures quoted in older guidance no longer in circulation.
Ian Bell2  
#3 Posted : 05 October 2015 14:40:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Think you have a problem if an electrical DB board is a serious source of ignition. To some extent the safety distance will depend upon the anticipated heat out put of a typical fire in the area. If I remember correctly, cardboard will auto ignite about 12.5kw/m^2 heat input.
stonecold  
#4 Posted : 05 October 2015 15:21:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Ian Bell2 wrote:
Think you have a problem if an electrical DB board is a serious source of ignition. To some extent the safety distance will depend upon the anticipated heat out put of a typical fire in the area. If I remember correctly, cardboard will auto ignite about 12.5kw/m^2 heat input.
Hi, Im not an electrical expert by any means, but I thought just about any piece of electrical equipment or installation would be considered a potential source of ignition? I have known these things to go pop before,one in a warehouse in the US recently did, very large arc flash followed by a fire, hence my concern in combusitbles being stored next to one. Thanks
Granlund40055  
#5 Posted : 05 October 2015 15:44:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Granlund40055

FM Global recommends 1.5 metres between electrical equipment and combustible material. See http://www.fmglobal.de/h...faq---english/index.html
stonecold  
#6 Posted : 05 October 2015 15:49:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Thanks very much. Funnily enough FM global are actually our insurers :)...
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 05 October 2015 16:37:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I would probably recommend to enclose the electrical equipment inside a cupboard built around it. As well as a safe space between it and the cardboard. Otherwise store the cardboard elsewhere.
stonecold  
#8 Posted : 05 October 2015 16:42:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

FireSafety101 wrote:
I would probably recommend to enclose the electrical equipment inside a cupboard built around it. As well as a safe space between it and the cardboard. Otherwise store the cardboard elsewhere.
Hi, Thanks, the distboard is currently in a typical metal type wall mounted enclosed unit, with a metal door built into the panel for maintenance access. Would you reccomend something built around this as well? FYI the pallets have been moved, cheers.
Evans37942  
#9 Posted : 05 October 2015 16:44:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans37942

An arc flashover is something you would associate with HV switching not an MV/LV distribution board. Materials of any description or substances must not be stored within switch rooms. MV and LV equipment if maintained appropriately will not present a risk however adequate clearance must be maintained so that access to the equipment is possible at all times.
stonecold  
#10 Posted : 05 October 2015 16:49:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Ive just read some fire service guidance saying faulty distribution boards are the cause of many commercial fires..it was dated 2013. So surely a distribution board would be considered a source of ignition? and therefore has the potential to catch fire?
Ian Bell2  
#11 Posted : 05 October 2015 16:53:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Not if designed, installed, used and maintained properly - as per EAW Regs and relevant standards.
stonecold  
#12 Posted : 06 October 2015 09:07:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Ian Bell2 wrote:
Not if designed, installed, used and maintained properly - as per EAW Regs and relevant standards.
Hear what your saying but things still sometimes fail even when maintained properly. Personally wouldn't taketh risk.
Safety Smurf  
#13 Posted : 06 October 2015 12:29:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

stonecold wrote:
Ian Bell2 wrote:
Not if designed, installed, used and maintained properly - as per EAW Regs and relevant standards.
Hear what your saying but things still sometimes fail even when maintained properly. Personally wouldn't taketh risk.
I've had a brand new DB catch fire in a new multi storey office building. I was caused by a grub screw that wasn't tightened sufficiently during assembly. not a component touched by the electricians who fitted it. the vibration caused by the current worked it loose and the contact starting arcing generating enough heat to cause the insulation to catch fire.
Ian Bell2  
#14 Posted : 06 October 2015 13:10:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

I've had a brand new DB catch fire in a new multi storey office building. I was caused by a grub screw that wasn't tightened sufficiently during assembly. not a component touched by the electricians who fitted it. the vibration caused by the current worked it loose and the contact starting arcing generating enough heat to cause the insulation to catch fire.
Therefore it wasn't installed properly..... or designed properly to take into account the vibration, that caused the grub screw to become loose. I stand by my original comments.
Ian Bell2  
#15 Posted : 06 October 2015 13:16:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

'the vibration caused by the current worked it loose' How does electrical current, in itself, cause vibration? I'm not an electrical engineer - so I stand to be corrected on this. However certainly sufficiently aware of general electrical principles. Never heard of this.
Evans37942  
#16 Posted : 07 October 2015 11:10:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans37942

I do not doubt that poor maintenance increases the risk of fires at electrical equipment but as I have said, the risks should not be significant if the electrical equipment is maintained. I would add though: to give you more confidence, part of the predictive maintenance regime could include a periodic thermographic survey.
firesafety101  
#17 Posted : 07 October 2015 11:33:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

stonecold wrote:
FireSafety101 wrote:
I would probably recommend to enclose the electrical equipment inside a cupboard built around it. As well as a safe space between it and the cardboard. Otherwise store the cardboard elsewhere.
Hi, Thanks, the distboard is currently in a typical metal type wall mounted enclosed unit, with a metal door built into the panel for maintenance access. Would you reccomend something built around this as well? FYI the pallets have been moved, cheers.
Sounds like you have it covered well enough but you should ensure the door is kept shut and locked, safety signage of course, and still maintain a safe distance from any storage. I would also recommend not storing anything combustible or flammable anywhere near the electrical equipment, despite what anyone else says about it. There should always be plenty of room for access to the electrical equipment at all times. Also have a C02 Extinguisher handy, not too close to the electrics, just so it is accessible if there is a fire. Further if you do store anything in there make sure you have the right extinguisher/s for the risk. Fire risk assessment needs to be reviewed as and when anything changes. Seems to me you have the fire risk assessment well in hand.
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