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Graham  
#1 Posted : 14 October 2015 14:14:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham

Hi

Am I right to be absolutely horrified by this?

Or am I naive?
Or am I missing something?

I was thinking the nuclear industry had a good safety record, or maybe this is now the construction industry we’re talking about.
Either way it’s still a pretty hazardous environment.


http://shirleyparsons.co...ty-battle-at-sellafield/
walker  
#2 Posted : 14 October 2015 14:40:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

It would be unfair to tar a whole industry with Sellafield's brush.
Invictus  
#3 Posted : 14 October 2015 14:50:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

It doesn't actually say anything with the exception that they are getting a full time convenor to liase between the contractors.

Just because the unions didn't have full time convenor means very little.

They would of had H&S involvement who was employed. I know H&S consultant who was employed at the plant during works taking place by contractors.
firesafety101  
#4 Posted : 14 October 2015 15:13:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

As I remember from working with trade union reps a good while ago the employer has to allow a safety rep committee if there are two or more safety reps who request it, and an employer must allow an employee's safety rep if it is requested, doesn't have to be a trade union member as long as representing the workforce.

If my memory is right I can't understand how/why there has been a dispute.
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 14 October 2015 15:43:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

FireSafety101 wrote:
As I remember from working with trade union reps a good while ago the employer has to allow a safety rep committee if there are two or more safety reps who request it, and an employer must allow an employee's safety rep if it is requested, doesn't have to be a trade union member as long as representing the workforce.

If my memory is right I can't understand how/why there has been a dispute.


Agreed. All the more surprising in a nuclear powerplant. Why I wonder was there no intervention by the local HSE?
achrn  
#6 Posted : 14 October 2015 15:47:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

FireSafety101 wrote:
As I remember from working with trade union reps a good while ago the employer has to allow a safety rep committee if there are two or more safety reps who request it, and an employer must allow an employee's safety rep if it is requested, doesn't have to be a trade union member as long as representing the workforce.

If my memory is right I can't understand how/why there has been a dispute.


I have no knowledge of the dispute, but reading the article linked it seems to be because the union was demanding that it be a full-time post ("in protest at the lack of a full-time convenor"). There's no statute that says it needs to be full time, to my knowledge.

The other issue seems to be the union was demanding a single committee with representation from every subcontractor on the site ("health and safety committee encompassing all the subcontractors"). I don't think that's required by statue either.

No, I'm not horrified that there wasn't a full time safety convener. Nor am I horrified that there wasn't a single safety committee with every subcontractor represented.

I temper my conclusions, however, in the certain knowledge that absolutely every time I read about something in the press where I have direct factual knowledge of the subject or incident, O observe that the published article contains gross errors. It seems unlikely that they save up their mistakes only for the articles where I know the details...
walker  
#7 Posted : 14 October 2015 15:49:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

RayRapp
Agreed. All the more surprising in a nuclear powerplant. Why I wonder was there no intervention by the local HSE? [/quote wrote:


They have bigger axes to grind at Sellafield.
Have a look at the long list of improvement notices and prosecutions
JayPownall  
#8 Posted : 14 October 2015 16:50:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JayPownall

As with most articles, they don't tell the full story; which is fair enough. That said I'd be wary of jumping to conclusions and making assumptions about Sellafield based on the article. But what do I know, I'm just a Sellafield safety professional!
firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 14 October 2015 17:47:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

If every sub contractor had "employees" and one of those employees was a safety rep then they all could join in with safety committee discussions.

Management would also be able to be in attendance.
RayRapp  
#10 Posted : 15 October 2015 11:50:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Whatever the case, the story smacks of a poor safety culture - which is worrying.
achrn  
#11 Posted : 15 October 2015 12:12:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

RayRapp wrote:
Whatever the case, the story smacks of a poor safety culture - which is worrying.


None of the workplaces I cover have a full-time safety convener. Also, right this minute I have a subcontractor to a contractor on site erecting scaffold. They didn't send a representative to our last safety committee meeting. Do these things suggest we have a poor safety culture?

If not, why does the story suggest that at Sellafield?
RayRapp  
#12 Posted : 15 October 2015 12:19:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

achrn wrote:
RayRapp wrote:
Whatever the case, the story smacks of a poor safety culture - which is worrying.


None of the workplaces I cover have a full-time safety convener. Also, right this minute I have a subcontractor to a contractor on site erecting scaffold. They didn't send a representative to our last safety committee meeting. Do these things suggest we have a poor safety culture?

If not, why does the story suggest that at Sellafield?


In my 40 years of working experience workers do not go on strike for no good reason.

'Union members employed by the subcontractors raised concerns about health and safety which led to a series of industrial actions, including a two-and-a-half hour stoppage on August 5th in protest at the lack of a full-time convenor.

There were four more walkouts last month, including a 24-hour strike on September 23rd.

More than 16,000 hours of work have been lost at Sellafield over the past six months.'

walker  
#13 Posted : 15 October 2015 12:22:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

RayRapp wrote:
Whatever the case, the story smacks of a poor safety culture - which is worrying.


Not because of this story, but because of past record, I'd agree.

Those of us in the Nuclear industy hope this was the turning point for Sellafield
http://www.telegraph.co....ed-of-20bn-contract.html

I've worked at vitually every Nuclear site in the country and am happy with what happens in those.
But wild horses would not drag me to sellafield
JayPownall  
#14 Posted : 15 October 2015 12:25:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JayPownall

You can't base a statement of SL having a poor safety culture on an article that only gives a select amount of info. We as safety professionals should understand it's difficult to measure culture internally, let alone based on a media story with missing info!
johnmurray  
#15 Posted : 15 October 2015 12:32:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Sellafield Ltd are not involved. The dispute has been with the various contractors working on the site.
The union members are employed at/by the Sellafield Contractor Group Limited.
The dispute has been between Unite, the Sellafield Contractor Group Limited and the Engineering Construction Industry Association (why am I not surprised at that)

http://www.constructione...ield-back-strike-action/

http://www.nwemail.co.uk...afa-8a6a-91de98365dee-ds
Ron Hunter  
#16 Posted : 15 October 2015 15:26:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Just for a minute there, I thought I was reading a post originating in the 1970s!
NigelB  
#17 Posted : 15 October 2015 15:34:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NigelB

We are talking about the construction industry here, dealing with a known hazardous site.

I started my professional H&S career in 1981. Since then the construction sector has been a priority for the Health and Safety Executive each and every year. I understand that this is courtesy of the continuing number of workers killed and injured each year and – in more recent times – the significantly greater numbers of construction workers dying or suffering ill-health due to their occupation.

Industrial relations: In 2009 42 construction companies were caught red handed financing, supporting and using an illegal blacklist which the industry set up in secret. At the point they were caught, 3,200 construction workers were listed on the illegal database. While being an active trade union member would be deemed reasonable justification, no doubt, by anti-union supporters, it was discovered that many were listed because they had raised health and safety issues.

According to the BBC on the 8th of this month:

‘In a submission to the High Court the firms, which include Balfour Beatty, Carillion and Costain Group, accepted that construction companies had provided much of the information and had used it to vet workers seeking employment.

The companies accepted that the vetting information system “infringed workers’ rights to confidentiality, privacy, reputation and latterly data protection”.’

Apparently the defendants in the case, including the construction companies Balfour Beatty, Carillion, Costain, Keir, Lang O’Rourke, Sir Robert McAlpine, Skanska and Vinci, offered the victims an “unreserved apology”. Seemingly the apology was for ‘any adverse employment consequences and for the distress and anxiety caused to workers and their families.’ It has taken over 6 years to get this apology, and even then it was only by forcing the companies into the High Court.

Sharon Doherty, HR and Organisational Effectiveness Director for Heathrow covered ‘people management’ during the building of Terminal 5, seen as a model for the construction of the Olympic Park and associated buildings. Included in her book ‘Heathrow’s History in the Making’ she makes the following observation:

‘Disputes were always tense and, curiously, part of the strategy was to have a strike at T5, at a time that was least inconvenient and risky for BAA.’

Apparently provoking a strike by management at the time of T5’s choosing, would show shareholders and trade unions alike who was boss. This ‘provoke a strike’ strategy in a model of how to develop a complex construction project!!

Meanwhile, in the HSE’s Strategy document ‘The Health and Safety of Great Britain\\ Be part of the solution’ it states the following in the section on worker involvement:

‘Workplace research provides evidence to suggest that involving workers has a positive effect on health and safety performance. Equally, there is strong evidence that unionised workplaces and those with health and safety representatives are safer and healthier as a result.’

So it appears that the trade unions involved with the multi-billion pound subcontracted construction activity at Sellafield have finally got the contractors to adopt the most effective mechanism for worker involvement; a recognised plus for positive health and safety cultures and key to improving health and safety performance.

Congratulations are in order - it took some doing!

Cheers.

NigelB
johnmurray  
#18 Posted : 15 October 2015 19:15:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"In a submission to the High Court the firms, which include Balfour Beatty, Carillion and Costain Group, accepted that construction companies had provided much of the information and had used it to vet workers seeking employment"

Let us take a look at Sellafield contractors......Hmmmm......funny how the same old confrontational names pop-up, isn't it?

Never mind...in a little while the unions will not be able to strike without balloting 110% of their members and getting a "yes" vote from 100% of the Conservative party.
Watch how fast the safety reps get slung out of Sellafield then.....
I hear, on the grapevine, that unions may face a ban on financing employment tribunal cases soon as well.....
MikeKelly  
#19 Posted : 16 October 2015 11:43:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MikeKelly

I am 100% with NigelB on this.
Indeed I would go further [see below]in support of union safety reps and a convenor to coordinate and enable cooperative activities on the site. It would be interesting and informative, no doubt, to hear the backstory to this given NigelB's reference to the 'blacklisting' companies involved. And of course, without trust there will always be major problems.
I would, in the interests of worker engagement, support extending safety reps powers to include some which are in force elsewhere, e.g. Australia where they have the power to issue their own improvement notices albeit with conditions. Oz employers predicted massive difficulties with this but, unsurprisingly, the power was used where appropriate and effectively with few being rejected by an inspector on review. And they can also stop dangerous work where such risks are imminent
Another aspect which to my mind should be in place is Union Worker Safety/Roving Advisers who can work in non unionised workplaces and SME's There was a pilot [over ten years ago] which was reasonably successful but then it all petered out -poor support from Govt/HSE? Perhaps NigelB can fill in on this.
I know these reportedly worked well in Sweden.
And, currently, we have in the current Trade Union Bill an attack on the facility time that safety reps can give to carrying out their functions and that together with all the other aspects of this bill including the 'banning' of strikes. [Currently at an almost all time low]
If the government is serious about reducing lost time at work it should implement a much more assertive strategy to reduce the massive and preventable toll of illness and disease at work.
So, all in all, one convenor is but one step in the right direction-lots more needed.
Regards
Mike
bob youel  
#20 Posted : 18 October 2015 10:43:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Graham -In my experance, after working in the nuclear game for quite a time from new build to decomissioning + maintenance both within in the nuclear island and outside it I can assure U that most aspects are just the same as in other industries and the nuclear industry is not made up of saints who follow all WSSW to the detail and note that only a small area on any site is actually concerned with radiation as the majority of activities are day to day industrial activities

as for the union thing this is a hiped up politicial 'bad union' press story and nothing else especially so knowing the companies noted and that the UK press is almost always sleepy /absent etc. when people get hurt or laws [especially H&S laws] are disregarded
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