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Working under a 1 ton load suspended by JCB forks
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Jgordonbt  
#1 Posted : 31 October 2015 13:15:59(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Jgordonbt
At my work place we have to climb on top of a tanker (like a large petrol tanker) and load it with product from bags. The bags themselves weigh 1 ton each, they are picked up on a JCB using regular forks (same as FLT forks), and then positioned over the holes on top of the tanker. A worker has to lay UNDER the 1t bag so he can open the bottom of the bag, allowing the load to empty into the tanker. Once this happens the JCB driver reverses, picks up a new bag and then does the same again. How can it be safe for a worker to lay under a 1 ton suspended object? All it takes is for the bag straps to break or for the driver to make an error and the worker will be crushed to death. I've raised this with our on site H&S and he signed it off, and when confronted with the issues I just mentioned he simply shrugged it off. My work place is very corrupt and underhanded. Any advice? Is this legal or is it worth reporting to the authorities? This happens 5 or 6 times a week.
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JohnW  
#2 Posted : 31 October 2015 20:11:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW
Jgordonbt, Doing the job in that way is in breach of the Lifting Operations regulations (LOLER). If you asked an HSE inspector to observe the work I'm sure he would stop the work (a prohibition order) and the business would have to at least pay for his visit (FFI) but might even be prosecuted. If you think your job would then be at risk we might provide further advice on Monday.
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alexmccreadie13  
#3 Posted : 02 November 2015 07:56:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
alexmccreadie13
I don't think anyone could answer it better than John has. Regards Alex
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Colossians 1:14  
#4 Posted : 02 November 2015 08:18:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14
The process described seems 'wrong' 'wrong' 'wrong', dangerous and illegal, contravening the H&S law as previously mentioned.
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David68  
#5 Posted : 02 November 2015 10:01:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
David68
alexmccreadie13 wrote:
I don't think anyone could answer it better than John has. Regards Alex
I agree.
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fscott  
#6 Posted : 02 November 2015 10:07:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fscott
This is covered by Regulation 8(1)(c) - Working Under Supended Loads which specifically states: - Where practicable, loads should not be carried or suspended over areas occupied by people. - Where this is not practicable you should establish a safe system of work which minimises the risks to people who may need to be below the load. - Where it is necessary to leave loads suspended you should ensure that access to the danger zone is prevented and that the load has been secured properly. Have a look at the guidance within the ACOP on page 41 http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l113.pdf
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Colossians 1:14  
#7 Posted : 02 November 2015 10:17:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14
fscott wrote:
This is covered by Regulation 8(1)(c) - Working Under Supended Loads which specifically states: - Where practicable, loads should not be carried or suspended over areas occupied by people. - Where this is not practicable you should establish a safe system of work which minimises the risks to people who may need to be below the load. - Where it is necessary to leave loads suspended you should ensure that access to the danger zone is prevented and that the load has been secured properly. Have a look at the guidance within the ACOP on page 41 http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l113.pdf
In addition to HSAW Section 2 (a, b ,c , d & e)
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Alfasev  
#8 Posted : 02 November 2015 11:12:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev
Jgordonbt. What you have described is an unsafe method and I would refuse to carry it out. It is a difficult situation as I suspect this may affect your job prospects. I would point out that the H&S adviser and line manager could personally be held to account if a series accident happened. There are a number of recent cases on the HSE website. A good tool is to email them with your concerns with a summary the replies to your post. In my experience this tends to get managers to respond more positively. If they fail to act I would telephone the HSE. They will protect your identity if you ask them to and will carry out a site inspection.
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Steve e ashton  
#9 Posted : 02 November 2015 21:06:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton
Is the job described in the UK?. Othrr jurisdictions have VERY different statutory standards... It iisn't safe but it may be 'legal' in the jurisdiction... We all need to be careful when reading queries that we do not fall into the trap of making assumptions that may not be justified on the info provided.
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alexmccreadie13  
#10 Posted : 03 November 2015 08:03:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
alexmccreadie13
Steve I understand and appreciate where you are coming from. If this was in any country in the world it would still be deemed to be too dangerous a practice to carry out. Regards Alex
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SP900308  
#11 Posted : 03 November 2015 08:40:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308
Could the employer not simply purchase a forklift 'hopper' attachment and remove the persons from the activity? Investigate alternative solutions and propose them to the employer, positive responses may follow more quickly than when waving the cards around! Good luck Simon
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A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 03 November 2015 13:46:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel
So much is wrong with this method of delivering material to the tanker; not just LOLER. Is the guy safe on top of the tanker(WAH)? Is he being exposed to the product(COSHH)? is he wearing PPE? If he is, does that limit his view and make it more likely that he will miss a step and injure himself? very poor practice.
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johnmurray  
#13 Posted : 03 November 2015 14:00:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray
Sounds like an average day at the farm.....
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chris42  
#14 Posted : 03 November 2015 14:03:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42
quote=A Kurdziel]So much is wrong with this method of delivering material to the tanker; not just LOLER. Is the guy safe on top of the tanker(WAH)? Is he being exposed to the product(COSHH)? is he wearing PPE? If he is, does that limit his view and make it more likely that he will miss a step and injure himself? very poor practice.
That was also my thought and in addition, when the person opens this bag where are their hands / arms in relation to the falling product. I suspect the "simply buy a hopper" is what they are trying not to do to save money. Which of course is false economy, but only looking at the short term. Makes you wonder a little about the safety advice, but we are not there and don't know the full story. However just on what is in the OP, it does not seem good. Chris
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David Bannister  
#15 Posted : 03 November 2015 17:11:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister
Possible explosion risk? A static charge can build up and the eventual spark ignite the dust cloud. Depends of course on the material being discharged.
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MichaelMorrisroe  
#16 Posted : 05 November 2015 15:46:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MichaelMorrisroe
We operate a similar operation at my place of work. We lower the the 1 tonne sack into a stainless (to prevent static discharge (DSEAR control)) holding frame by FLT which allows the operator to safely undo the tie holding the bottom of the sack closed. This then allows the load to free fall into a rotary valve and blower system which transfers the load into the awaiting tanker. It works very well, and apart from the odd split bag there have been no problem in 7 years of operation
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stevie40  
#17 Posted : 05 November 2015 18:16:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40
Further to the above answer, it looks like this is the sort of thing the OP needs. https://www.guttridge.co...cts/bulk-bag-dischargers I've no connection to the company - just happen to drive past their premises every so often and see these devices being shipped out to customers.
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Safe AS  
#18 Posted : 06 November 2015 15:52:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Safe AS
Report it, let the authorities decide the safety and legality
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