Rank: New forum user
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New user .
Currently the paper based system we use for permit to work is not working . contractors leaving site without signing off permit, permits not completed accurately, poor control over levels of authorisation. etc I am looking at the e-permits type which photo are taken of permit issuer and permit acceptor. Does anybody have any comments on these types of systems
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Rank: Forum user
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Paper based permit system should work without issues like you talked about . It seems like you have a problem with the management side of things . Lack of training in completing permits and contractors should not be allowed to leave site without a system in place to sign of this very important paper work . I think more information is needed about your place of work Job type etc to further comments .
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Rank: Super forum user
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I agree with Mgadd78 on this. What is needed IMO is rigorous application of the procedure, and to CONTROL the PTW system. I would get agreement from management and then get refresher / training done for issuers and acceptors, then audit the system to ensure it is working. Arrange for you to be authorised to hold up payments to contractors - and tell them that they have to satisfactorily complete all PTWs before they leave site, or they don't get paid. This has all worked for me in the past. The big danger with PTW systems is complacency and poor standards becoming the norm.
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Rank: Forum user
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To add to the advice above I suggest you look at the PTW system itself. I have seen some unbelievably complex PTW systems in the past that seem more intent on trying to prove something in a court of law than doing what they are intended for, which is to act as a record of control of the contractor.
When I train permit issuers on a procedure I stress time and again that the form is not the object of the exercise, it is simply a record to show that you controlled a contractor undertaking a high risk job. The real work is to ensure he has identified and controlled his risks, actually has the identified control measures in place before starting and has coordinated with anyone else in the area to ensure no-one is put at unnecessary risk. If you can get that message across to those issuing the permits then the form becomes easy as it is then a useful record for the controller person to prove that he has done what you have asked of him.
Ask your staff why they have not completed the forms; it may well be that they fail to understand what it is for or they may not actually be the one controlling the contractor.
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Rank: Super forum user
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these folks only speak one language and thats money. refuse to pay them if the PTW isnt signed off It will only happen once
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