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chas  
#1 Posted : 23 November 2015 09:45:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

Can anyone point to where it says that there MUST be at least two water fire extinguishers on each storey of an office building? We have a building - (3 storeys, two small offices per floor, one small kitchen and WC's, low risk office type environment) - which currently has one water and one CO2 on each landing and one extra CO2 in a small Comms Room (7 extinguishers altogether). There is a single protected accommodation staircase which is the only means of escape. In the event of an alarm staff are told to evacuate rather than attempt to fight a fire. Adding an extra water fire extinguisher on each landing seems a bit unnecessary, especially when each landing is less than 3 square meters. We are now being told that new advice says there must be two water per floor irrespective of building design/layout etc or our risk assessment. No one can tell me where this advice is coming from or where the need originates - any comments or pointers to the document where this requirement comes from would be welcome, I would like to read it for myself. Thanks in advance.
fscott  
#2 Posted : 23 November 2015 09:58:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fscott

I'm no expert and stand ready to be corrected but they could be referring to BS 5306-8:2012 Fire Extinguishing Installations and Equipment on Premises Part 8: Selection and Positioning of Portable Fire Extinguishers – Code of Practice and it's Section 8. To summarise it says that, in relation to class A fires, where any floor/storey in less than 400m2 you should have a minimum of two class a extinguishers providing a combined minimum rating of 26A. You say you have CO2 plus a water extinguisher but as your CO2 doesn't cover class A fires you wouldn't meet the requirements of the standard. The standard can be purchased from BSI at http://shop.bsigroup.com.../?pid=000000000030152566
firesafety101  
#3 Posted : 23 November 2015 09:59:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I wonder where that advice came from, if you can find out please let us know. Is there a fire risk assessment or were your current extinguishers sited by the extinguisher provider ? Whoever did the fire risk assessment will have decided on what you have at present. What you have appear to be reasonable for what you describe, it all depnds on the risk, if it is electrical and combustible you may be OK.
chas  
#4 Posted : 23 November 2015 10:27:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

Thanks for the speedy responses, much appreciated. I have managed to find out where the advice came from - it was from the extinguisher servicing company, a well known national company, (need I say more!). The BS may suggest it is required but I feel our office layout and the level of fire risk does not warrant it and I will wait until our fire risk assessments are reviewed and renewed next year. Advice is always welcome but only where it can be sensibly applied. I think we will stay as we are for the present, and look towards retendering the servicing contract :) Thanks again.
jay  
#5 Posted : 23 November 2015 11:30:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

You may need to check the fine print regarding your premises fire insurance. Insurers tend to go by British Standards etc which can be more than the minimum required by law etc!
alistair  
#6 Posted : 23 November 2015 12:27:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
alistair

I think that BS5306 states that if the floor area is less than 100m2 and is in single occupancy then the extinguisher rating is 13A which means only a single extinguisher. I apply this, particularly in low risk environments. We recently changed extinguisher company and in line with my fire risk assessments they were happy that we removed a significant number of extinguishers from our buildings due to over-prescription by the previous company. I worked out that they applied the BS guidelines for foam / water extinguishers in completely the wrong way i.e. 30m between each fire point - not 60m which is the BS guideline.
Martin Rudd  
#7 Posted : 23 November 2015 15:26:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin Rudd

BS 5306 in its opening para 1 talks about the..." suitability and siting of portable fire extinguishers ..... and are used for the protection of buildings and other premises and their contents." Para 6 then goes to mention ... "on each storey there should be at least least two extinguishers..." IE Property protection driven. The Fire Safety Order (article 8) requires "general fire precautions to ensure SFARP safety" But there is a requirement to protect ensure the premises are safe for relevant persons in Article 8 part b I consider the provison of Fire fighting equipment does not make the premises safe and para b does not require them. IE to comply with fire safety order you can risk assess for life protection a very different provision of fire fighting equipment than the BS for property protection but check what insurers think.
mssy  
#8 Posted : 23 November 2015 19:50:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Let's not forget it may be necessary to work out the rating of a floor area to ensure sufficient fire extinguishers are supplied The fire rating is found by multiplying the floor area in metres squared (m²) by 0.065. Therefore for a floor area of 200m² the fire rating is 200 x 0.065 = 13A. A 9 litre water extinguisher (or 6 litre litre foam) has a fire rating of 13A therefore one 9 litre water extinguisher or 6 litre foam will be required for every 200m² of floor area (plus specialist extinguishers for electrical risk etc)
Guyzy1982  
#9 Posted : 24 November 2015 09:03:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Guyzy1982

Just to add a little more you should think of: Travel Distances BS 5306-8:2012 Following Max Distances to site an extinguisher from risk Class A Extinguishers - 30 metres Class B Extinguishers - 10 Metre Class C Extinguishers - 30 Metre Class D Extinguishers - (Expert Advice) Class F Extinguishers - 10 Metre " The fire rating is found by multiplying the floor area in metres squared (m²) by 0.065. Therefore for a floor area of 200m² the fire rating is 200 x 0.065 = 13A." Use the above quote from mssy as a gospel. cheers G
chas  
#10 Posted : 24 November 2015 10:37:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

Thanks for the comments, all very useful. In terms of floor area, no floor is greater than 120m2 and that particular floor is served by two co2 and one H2O extinguisher (and one fire blanket). The other two floors are <100m2 (each with one co2 and one H2O). The greatest risk is from electrical equipment similar to that found in a typical office environment. I still don't think I will rush out to buy extra H2O extinguishers for each floor as is being suggested by the servicing company. I will wait for the outcome of a new FRA which is due early in the new year. Thanks again.
David Bannister  
#11 Posted : 24 November 2015 11:06:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Most extinguisher service technicians have sales targets.
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