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Davies36237  
#1 Posted : 23 November 2015 21:26:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Davies36237

Here is the scenario: A group of residents have formed a Right To Manage (RTM) company, in which the residents become directors and take over the management of the building and common grounds from the landlord. They employ the services of a Managing Agent who collects the rent and arranges for third party companies to carry out repairs, cleaning, gardening, and maintenance etc. The Managing Agent wants to know if he should supply a grit bin for the residents to grit the footpaths themselves, of if he is better off not doing so. Neither the RTM company or the managing agent employ any staff to do the gritting, so the residents would have to do the gritting themselves. The RTM company has a responsibility for people using the common areas, ie car park, footpaths and bin yard etc. This includes residents, visitors, and contractors. Are the directors of the RTM (there could be many) classed as employees of the RTM company? Is it best if grit bins are supplied, if so who is going to use them, or is this going to create additional problems (supplying PPE to those gritting etc)?
bob youel  
#2 Posted : 24 November 2015 08:40:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

The "to grit or not to grit" question is complicated especially where few people are present & I have been told by barristers that its cheaper [even for large businesses] not to grit & fight a case as it comes in noting that its a very very rare situation where somebody will sue & even more rare where they will win All directors are liable for all things e.g. tax, H&S etc. associated with the undertaking & my fellow directors did things that they were competent in such as gritting ---- as a professional I trained people in how to grit properly ---- and we only gritted [from a small bag of grit] the immediate area around the main entrance & bin area and not car parks nor paths. We did not supply any PPE nor other kit as we took the view that the activity was the same as a private householders activity in the same circumstances ---- In this case it seems that a 'less than adequate' managing agent has been commissioned as they should know the answer to the question & the solicitor who set up the company failed in explaining what the directors duties & liabilities are ----- as an aside I cannot understand why a managing agent has been commissioned as the point of 'right to manage' is to save money & all MA's do is take £ out of the pot? My advice is to do as we did and to get rid of the MA!
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 24 November 2015 09:00:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

It's a difficult scenario - should be a test question for NEBOSH! First, I would always advise to grit where possible. I don't buy this if we grit and someone falls and sustains an injury the gritter will be liable. Courts do use a modicum of common sense and the term 'reasonably practicable' springs to mind. In terms of health and safety and liability there could be more than one party held responsible under h&s law. As Bob points out, the RTM would probably be held accountable for some aspects of the building and grounds - for example, Occupier's Liability Act 1957 as amended. The managing agent is likely to be held liable for any contractors it uses on the premises. The sensible option is to provide some grit bins, with or without PPE (what do you really need?) and allow the residents access to the bins when the need arises. Sometimes I feel you have to put aside the legal aspects and use some good old fashioned common sense in order to find a sensible solution - others may disagree.
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