Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
David T  
#1 Posted : 03 December 2015 15:26:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
David T

Dear all - CDM question Reg 2 - interpretation - “construction work” means the carrying out of any building, civil engineering or engineering construction work and includes— (a) the construction, alteration, conversion, fitting out, commissioning, renovation, repair, upkeep, redecoration or other maintenance. I'm told that lift maintenance does not fall under this interpretation? What are the reasons for this? Many thanks David
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 03 December 2015 15:59:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

David I do not know who advised you but I would disagree looking at Reg2 of the CDM Regs. To be honest, repairs and maintenance are a bit of a grey area, where some people claim it's not in the spirit of the CDM regs, if a duck quacks...and so on. However the Reg 2 covers nearly all repairs and maintenance type work - so, who am I am to argue?
jay  
#3 Posted : 03 December 2015 16:32:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

CDM 2015 applies to lift maintenance--refer to the SafetyUpdate from the Lift and Escalator Industry Association http://www.google.co.uk/...kRIdkm3dk_48xWcBnSlLi-Vw
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 03 December 2015 16:51:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Careful folks. The HSE pages now contain the somewhat unhelpful statement: "Maintenance Does CDM 2015 apply to all maintenance work? No. The definition of construction work has not changed under CDM 2015. The application to maintenance work remains the same as it was under CDM 2007." HSE have taken down their 2007 pages following the end of the transition period. A trawl thru' their inspectorate pages might find that definitive statement (I have a copy of it somewhere). I would suggest that CDM is NOT intended to apply to any routine maintenance - including lift work.
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 03 December 2015 17:11:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

It was clarified in the old 2007 ACoP, interpretation of Regulation 2. HSE (above) are telling us that this clarification of the definition remains unchanged: "The following are not construction work as defined: general maintenance of fixed plant, except when this is done as part of other construction work, or it involves substantial dismantling or alteration of fixed plant which is large enough to be a structure in its own right, for example structural alteration of a large silo; complex chemical plant; power station generator or large boiler" Is there an argument out there then that a lift isn't 'fixed plant'? I know they go up and down, but I don't believe that means they're mobile plant!
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 03 December 2015 17:16:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Jay wrote:
CDM 2015 applies to lift maintenance--refer to the SafetyUpdate from the Lift and Escalator Industry Association http://www.google.co.uk/...kRIdkm3dk_48xWcBnSlLi-Vw
Jay, with the utmost respect, the content of that article is absolute nonsense! e.g. "This leads LEIA to conclude that CDM 2015 applies to the installation, refurbishment, major and minor repair and maintenance of lifts,escalators, moving walkways, lifting platforms, stairlifts and similar products for both domestic and non‐domestic clients." =Bunk. I suggest the LEIA seek out competent advice?
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 03 December 2015 21:04:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Here we go again on the merry-go-round... if the HSE did not intend routine maintenance (I don't believe it should be included) to be included in construction activities then they should not have included a reference to it in Reg 2 - definition of construction work! Ron, can you reference that quote. It really is about time someone from IOSH stepped in to seek some official - come on you Councillors start doing some lobbying.
Alfasev  
#8 Posted : 04 December 2015 10:59:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

Ron Hunter  
#9 Posted : 04 December 2015 12:03:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Ray, Is this the reference you're after? http://www.hse.gov.uk/Co.../cdm/faq/maintenance.htm It doesn't help at all that we have to refer to a withdrawn ACoP to find a definitive interpretation. I do hope the HSE close these loops!
Alfasev  
#10 Posted : 04 December 2015 12:09:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

Ron Hunter  
#11 Posted : 04 December 2015 12:20:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Confusion reigns, alfaserv. In the document you reference, the Client/Employer is left to make a hazy judgement. The information currently on their website is (albeit with reference to a withdrawn ACoP!) essentially definitive.
RayRapp  
#12 Posted : 04 December 2015 23:00:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Ron Hunter wrote:
Ray, Is this the reference you're after? http://www.hse.gov.uk/Co.../cdm/faq/maintenance.htm It doesn't help at all that we have to refer to a withdrawn ACoP to find a definitive interpretation. I do hope the HSE close these loops!
I am still not much wiser - CDM 2007 is dead in the water. If CDM does not apply to 'all construction work' what, if any, maintenance work does it apply?
philb  
#13 Posted : 07 December 2015 13:48:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
philb

Good afternoon. The newsletter referred to above was written prior to the introduction of CDM 2015 and based on the information, some of it incorrect, circulating at that time. A clarification maintenance was issued by the HSE in a construction bulletin which was issued 28 May 2015. It does includes words to the effect general maintenance of fixed plant which mainly involves mechanical adjustments, replacing parts and lubrication is unlikely to be construction work. It is unfortunate the exclusion for maintenance of fixed plant included in the 2007 guidance was omitted from the 2015 version
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.