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Fire evacuation and oxygen / acetylene welding equipment.
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chris42  
#1 Posted : 09 December 2015 12:19:25(UTC)
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chris42
I have been looking at our evacuation procedures with regard to isolating power / gas supplies etc, if safe to do so on their way out. But then thought what about removing any oxygen / acetylene welding equipment from the building on they way out, again if safe to do so.

While thinking about this as a potential instruction it occurred to me that this may not be practical and wondered what others thoughts were?

I thought I should designate an area that the set is always returned to. I then thought that we would not want employees going too far out of their way to get it. However I then thought, but I should not have such items near an escape route. Which brought me back to the start of the thought process. It seemed at first like a good idea.

Do you have instructions to remove this type of equipment, if so how have you done it. Alternatively is it a bad idea.

Chris
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Psycho  
#2 Posted : 09 December 2015 16:57:02(UTC)
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Psycho
The first question should be why are you using oxy/ace it is horrible stuff its volitile in its normal state can you not replace with oxy/propane or safer alternatives

If you do need it and it can’t be replaced with safer do a good risk assessment, the evacuation distances for oxy/ace are massive 200 metres in some instances, which can have a massive impact on external areas and adjoining business, then the area it is stored etc

I have banned it from all of my sites (hospital) it could mean evacuating a whole hospital with a hot bottle scenario, which is not a risk we can take.

If we ever do need to bring a bottle on site (rare occurance) it’s a small handy, which is in and off as soon as the job is done, fire alarm, the set goes off site -etc.
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RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 09 December 2015 17:40:40(UTC)
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RayRapp
LPG cylinders including oxy/acetylene ideally should be stored in an outhouse or building with a robust fire wall. The notion you can remove it in an emergency is a bit fanciful, as it could put those at risk and not a good idea me thinks.
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toe  
#4 Posted : 09 December 2015 19:00:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe
How big are the bottles? In my opinion I would not attempt to remove the bottles in the event of an emergency. If they are being used, I would suggest that they are turned off at the bottles and left.

Note: There appears to be some conflicting advice on this, some recent research has suggested that the 24 hour cooling is incorrect and that a an acetylene bottle involved in a fire only needs to be cooled for an hour (thermal runaway and all that stuff).

Sorry but I cannot find this information, I just remember a report I read recently from a German company (it may be BAM).
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firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 09 December 2015 19:08:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101
To answer the question it is not advisable to take anything like that out to an assembly point as it would definitely slow you down and interfere with others exiting the premises.

Hazardous substances should not be anywhere near an assembly point.

Advice is to switch everything off, turn off the supply at the cylinders, make sure they, including their tubing are not obstructing the exit route and then get out and stay out until declared safe to re-enter.

If FRS are called notify them the locations of all hazardous cylinders and whether involved in fire or not.

Other advice regarding use and storage of such equipment is clouding the issue IMHO.
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fscott  
#6 Posted : 09 December 2015 19:19:44(UTC)
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fscott
This could the report that Toe is talking about re revised guidance for fire brigade for dealing with acetylene cylinders in fires

http://www.boconline.co..../acetylene-guidance.html
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toe  
#7 Posted : 09 December 2015 19:29:22(UTC)
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toe
Thanks for this fscott
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chris42  
#8 Posted : 10 December 2015 09:25:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42
Thanks all for the replies, yes we sadly do need oxy/acetylene, have tried oxy propane. Yes we store spares bottles outside in different cages over 3m apart away from building, however the working set on the trolley in the workshop is what I'm referring to (I had not made that clear).

Thanks FireSafety101 that makes sense. I had thought of that as well as what I had written, then got myself in a bit of a loop. (its a bit like spelling sometimes the more you think about it the more unsure you become, there's probably some term for this, but I don't know it).

Yes Toe / Psycho I seem to recall that information coming up on this forum a while time ago (200m and the lesser cool down time). The 200m exclusion was what made me think about removal of the trolley from the working area. However as FireSafety101 notes it will slow down escape.

Thanks for the Link fscott,

Cheers all
Chris
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