Hi Yet again I have been put in a position that goes against all that I have learnt during my time as H and S manager. Urgent repairs are required to a damaged equipment at height, several quotes for repairs and the guy in charge of authorising has once again said he will repair it himself. I have already discussed the access as needing scaffold to be in a secure situation. This guy has said he can hire and repair for a fraction of the cost. Many years as a repair man in his opinion qualifies him to be able to do this. The company director is happy for him to do it, less costs. I on the other hand am not, due to the working at height risks and lack of professional qualification. So what can I do, the health and safety of all employees starts with me but the ultimate responsible person Is the director of the company. Should I just wash my hand of it, and wait for the accident to occur or work with the guy, do a risk assessment and hope he see's sense, which of course he won't In reality it is not a difficult job, I could most likely do it myself but for me that isn't the point. Why do they choose to ignore any advice given. The problem is he is likely to carry out the work in my absence to prevent me getting involved. Really am at my wits end. Has anyone else been in such a situation that no matter what you say or do its never taken on board?

Yes I have and since I have been self employed I have walked away from a number clients who have ignored my advice. It is different when PAYE and to walk away from the job means loss of earnings etc. etc. My advice to you would be to work with the Director and the worker to try to ensure proper safe working is adopted, even if that means you write RA and MS for the work, with their input, ensure they are read and signed as understood, then you can go and have a nice Christmas knowing that you have done your best. Good luck

You don't say what work they will be doing ? Is your objection just the height issue or is it they will be carrying out electrical / gas repairs etc. Something that has a qualification in its own right or is it they will be replacing a couple of bolts etc something a half decent mechanic could manage. My concern would be if it is a recognised trade / skill then you would be condoning the of an unqualified person, by assisting in creating a method statement / risk assessment. I think you need to take care and qualify to yourself what is actually to be done. If it is just the height issue and they are willing to get a proper scaffolding company in, and no special skills / quals for the actual work, then maybe. Chris

I wouldn't work with this guy to complete his documentation if the choice was mine. I would feel uncomfortable under circumstances where my advice has already been ignored or over-ridden. I'd make my point clearly known - in writing - to the MD and then step away. I wouldn't want to compromise my position by working with a cowboy.

Couldn't agree more Andy. Document it and step back. It is HIS responsibility and he will be far more harshly dealt with for ignoring good advice in the case of a prosecution or enforcement action. Merry Xmas and try not to worry about it. You have done all you can!

I don't know the whole story, nor the task in hand, but I agree that attempting to work with the contractor is the right way forward. There are simple ways of working at height to carry out repairs etc in a safe manner. However, there will come a point where you can only get so far. If, at this point, he is still not wanting to play ball and work safely, then I'd throw him (metaphorically of course!) off site. Yes - your Director will be cheesed off, but after a careful explanation of the legal inaccuracies, corporate manslaughter possibilities (to him personally as well as the company) and costs due to fines, increased insurance premiums etc he'll eventually understand that this is the right action. Have I done this in practice? Not often, but yes....an electrician refused to carry out works with the circuit de-energised, despite his colleague agreeing to my suggestions. After a long conversation (90 minutes!) he was eventually invited to leave our site and not to return. Pete

The work required is too some damaged to the factory walls, these are corragated panels damaged in the recent poor weather at a height of around 5-7 meters. The actually task is not a difficult job, its basically re securing the panels to the frame. The job will require a suitable platform. All 3 contractors who quoted for the job have said scaffold will be required. The guy i work with is happy to go out and hire scaffold, or use his mates. It will not be put together by a qualified operator. I have the added worry that some of panels are hanging off, of they were to break away on him while he works on them i can see serious injury. I think the solution here is to carry out a full risk assesment with him, pointing out risks i feel that need to be addressed. The problem is he is one of these guys that is never wrong, and he has the ear of company director. Basically as you have all said, protect my self first

Bally Clover-i'm confused. If you are H&S Manager and the MD is responsible for delivery of safety why are YOU signing the policy statement. I have to say that is a crazy situation. You need to take action to correct this. The most senior person in the business should sign the policy statement. The current situation is crazy and wrong! You need to refer him to the IOD guidance for directors showing how to drive culture in the proper way. I would do this ASAP.

Listen to CC and act quickly as the advice is very sound ------------ I am concerned for U in that a person acting as the H&S has signind a companies H&S policy [or could it be that the MD is putting U in the frame?] = that said at the same time I know just how hard it is out there as employers on the whole are reverting to type with good working environments being scarce and I appreciate that being a lone voice is hard - step back and re-evaluate your position, duties, responses etc. and go from there as its U who has to work there best of luck

I would use a recognised training provider usually PASMA as I have came across in the past clients to don't accept certain in house training. As far for the H&S Policy the most senior person in the organisation should be signing this. As said previously ensure RAMS, TBT''s are signed up to and a permit to work system where necessary

To those who suggest that the H&S bod write the RA and MS: I think that an incorrect approach. Smacks of desperation. Are YOU qualified (competent) to do that job? If not, then you aren't competent to produce a Method Statement.

Totally agree all RAMS should be developed by the contractor and submitted to the H&S department for review and only pasesd when suitable and sufficient for the task

I can empathise with the OP's predicament. I had a job a couple of years ago where I went to work for a company that manufactured anodes in a foundry type environment. The company seemed really proactive and I was tasked with getting the ball rolling with installing 18001. What the company really wanted was a 'box ticker' for PQQ's being received from the oil and gas industry. The General Manager talked a good game in front of clients but in reality he was a nightmare. After a couple of months I started to 'blind' copy every email I sent to him with regard to my concerns with regard to H&S. After about 6 months of me being at the company an HSE inspector walked in off the street (they were targeting foundry environments) and put together a list of things that needed to be improved after walking round the workplace. The wearing of PPE was one issue. I had been banging on about PPE not being worn since day one of my arrival! Anyway one Monday morning, after I had been on holiday for a week, I came in to be told that a caster had been injured when molten metal had exploded into his face while he was carrying out his work. (This employee turned out to be the General Manager's son). I immediately reported the incident to RIDDOR and met with the General Manager. He wanted to discipline the employee for not wearing his visor, I told him it was a management failing and that not wearing visors is commonplace as advised many, many times. The next morning when I got into work I was told to go home and the company were considering dismissing me because I was not pro-active in doing my job (I had been there 11 months, so had no employment rights as such). This made me furious, they could have just got rid of me without too much hassle due to my short time served there but calling into question my work I was not having. (My view is that with me out the way the GM would try and put the blame on me to the HSE for not carrying out remedial measures resulting from the HSE inspection at the company) Anyhow, I got a solicitor involved that helped me draft a letter to the General Manager refuting his allegations of my poor workmanship. The General Manager couldn't have got his HR people to meet me fast enough, I told the company I would not be going back to work for them. My solicitor negotiated a good settlement agreement with the company. The HSE requested my emails, I do not know what happened after!

I would attempt to work with them and attempt to make them understand your concerns, however, you are unable to make someone do something they don't want to do. So make sure you put it in writing that you are advising them to do/not do certain things, and then the responsibility rests with them. All you can do is advise and hope they do the responsible thing. Short of handcuffs there isn't a great deal else you can do. That's the difficulty with certain H&S jobs, not being able to ENSURE things are done safely.

No, pretty much on the mark for me. Good Post. To say the Health & Safety person (Manager / Advisor whatever) should have expertise in every single activity is just silly. To say I have "responsibilitiy" for all "Health & Safety" is as equally misunderstood by many. Personally I have experience, expertise and competence in so many areas, construction, OHL, civils, manufacturing etc. on projects worth 100s of millions; however every now and then a task or activity will come up I don't fully understand or have expertise in. At that point you discuss, and communicate with the experts and the people doing the work to understand and "see" the task. You use you're skills and experience to determine if the people doing the work fully understand and give you a confidence they have a sound SSOW. Every day is a school day and thats the beauty of our job.