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jwk  
#1 Posted : 26 November 2015 13:49:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Afternoon, We're looking at sorting out our drive training in general, we have a fleet of just over 800 vehicles, none above 7.5 tonnes. We have a fair number of reversing incidents, mostly just involving bollards, lamp-posts and other pieces of street furniture, but of course there's the potential for something much worse. We already state that reversing vehicles (vans, minibuses, ambulances) should use a banksman, but we don't stipulate how these should be trained. So what I am interested in is standards for banksman training, if such exist. If there isn't a standard we will just source some training from somewhere, but if there is some kind of set approach we would like to adopt it, John
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 26 November 2015 14:10:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hi John Last time I was involved in this training was for Slinger/Banksman, which is more for construction type vehicles. If you ask Mr Google he will bring up a raft of training providers including RoSPA. However I suspect what you really need is vehicle marshal training - possibly semantics. Ray
jwk  
#3 Posted : 26 November 2015 14:22:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

What's the difference Ray? I've never heard the term 'vehicle marshall' before, John
chris42  
#4 Posted : 26 November 2015 14:57:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Having looked at this recently, may I suggest that if you are going to give training to the person guiding the vehicle, that the driver also needs to know what the hand signals mean. Another title I have come across is reversing assistant. Could you not create something an do in-house. Regards Chris
JohnW  
#5 Posted : 26 November 2015 14:59:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

jwk, My main customer has a much smaller number of vehicle/warehouse employees, does in-house banksman training, theoretical and practical, based on published guidance on doing specific location risk assessment and hand signals etc. Important to train drivers too so that they know what the various hand signals mean and to you should inspect all vehicles for suitable mirrors.
fordway  
#6 Posted : 26 November 2015 15:00:32(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
fordway

As a basis for training of vehicle reversing signallers try L64, P 24 and Schedule 1.
jwk  
#7 Posted : 26 November 2015 15:03:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Thanks folks, Sorted out vehicle marshalling Ray, I had heard traffic marshall used but wa shaving a bit of a senior moment. Looking at the cost of training John I think we will do this in-house, and thanks for the note about drivers Chris, very good point. Fordway, thanks for the steer to L64; exactly the kind of thing I was looking for, John
chris42  
#8 Posted : 26 November 2015 15:32:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Please note L64 has an error on page 43 Schedule 1 the pictogram for Horizontal movement is incorrect. It shows the signal for end not horizontal movement. you may like this http://www.hse.gov.uk/wo...ns/banksman/banksman.htm Chris
JohnW  
#9 Posted : 26 November 2015 16:11:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Chris42 wrote:
Please note L64 has an error on page 43 Schedule 1 the pictogram for Horizontal movement is incorrect. It shows the signal for end not horizontal movement.
Chris, My download copy correctly shows HORIZONTAL DISTANCE: the hands (held up neck height) to indicate the relevant distance. (the END signal is : both hands clasped at chest height)
aud  
#10 Posted : 26 November 2015 16:30:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

This has come up recently - search 'banksman' - but I have taken liberty of copying Ian A-H response directly to save the bother of finding the link. Ian A-H: "What you need are reversing assistants, not banksmen. The HSE and the waste industry (WISH) collaborated a number of years ago following a spate of reversing bin truck fatalities. Take a look at this: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/waste04.pdf You should be able to knock up a 1-hour session, including practical. Just needs adapting to your circumstances. Or you can use it to evaluate outside providers." Banksman / signaller protocols too complicated but Rev Ass possibly too simple (refuse vehicles have cameras so the driver is responsible for not hitting objects), so devise your own from references given. Key point is that both assistant and driver need clear and simple instructions, to include the absolute MUST stop if assistant disappears from view. Rev Asst must know where to look and where to stand to be safe. 2 signals - 1. safe to manoeuvre (driver responsibility) and 2. STOP. (manoeuvre not in spell check!) I have a reversing aid on my car so I can't hit bollards unknowingly - there may be some of your vehicles where this installation is justifiable too, although they don't see pedestrians etc until they are actually behind.
chris42  
#11 Posted : 26 November 2015 16:35:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

JohnW wrote:
Chris42 wrote:
Please note L64 has an error on page 43 Schedule 1 the pictogram for Horizontal movement is incorrect. It shows the signal for end not horizontal movement.
Chris, My download copy correctly shows HORIZONTAL DISTANCE: the hands (held up neck height) to indicate the relevant distance. (the END signal is : both hands clasped at chest height)
I just downloaded it again and it is not correct for Horizontal Distance it shows the hands clasped chest height. Just above the Danger pictogram ? http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l64.htm Chris
imponderabilius  
#12 Posted : 30 November 2015 13:29:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
imponderabilius

There's also N133 Plant Machinery Marshall, someone who controls traffic on site. Found this one on our training provider's website (btw. I recommend their services): http://www.ecosselifting.com/services.html
jwk  
#13 Posted : 30 November 2015 13:39:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Thanks everybody, banksman training is indeed rather more elaborate than we need (mostly) as we don't have Artics. We do have some 7.5 tonners which carry emergency control rooms; they're the biggest thing we have so yes, some kind of simple agreed schema for reversing is what we need. We can get that done in house, I've got our head of education interested, so it should be fairly plain sailing from here, John
bigpub  
#14 Posted : 30 November 2015 14:37:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

I have delievered such a course to four guys on a site. I gave them a run down of the laws applicable. I guided them through their own risk assessments, rgearding vehicle hazards. I then set up a compound with cones. Showed them a short film with hazards in. And then we did a practical of reversing and moving off. I kept on coaching through out the practical to ensure they could see what the dangers might be
PMac13  
#15 Posted : 04 January 2016 11:49:38(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
PMac13

Hi there, new to the forum so sorry for the late response. We conduct banksman training regularly and find that most companies do it for all vehicles not just artics, you can of course conduct your own in house training but i'd advise looking into exactly what you would need to cover. I'm happy to advise and help if required. Paul
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