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ADALE  
#1 Posted : 04 January 2016 11:52:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ADALE
Good morning & happy new year,

I don't suppose I'm the first to ponder this, but there can be a very different approach to practical implementation of regulations regarding consultation. I'm putting a system in place and found I couldn't answer a workers query.

'Does the company have to recognize a union appointed representative'?

The term recognize left me looking for something in black & white in guidance, but I'm struggling to identify something concise. We have no union members, and the worker's query was hypothetical. Does anyone have experience of this, rather than quoting regulation to me please

Thanks in advance
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IanDakin  
#2 Posted : 04 January 2016 12:30:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin
Hi

There are two sets of Regulations.
Safety Representatives and Safety Committees 1977, which deals with TU Reps
and
Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regs that deal with non-TU workplaces.
Information on these is available on the HSE website here
http://www.hse.gov.uk/in...nt/hsrepresentatives.htm
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Kate  
#3 Posted : 04 January 2016 13:11:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate
The union type of consultation is only required if the company recognises the union in the first place. So in this situation, no.
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RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 04 January 2016 13:11:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp
Hi

I am baffled why an employee would ask the question if you do not have any union members and, why you would bother raising it? Not a criticism but an observation.

The term 'Does the company have to...' implies a legal requirement as per regulations above. Regulations aside, there would probably be a policy in large organisations for dealing with TU reps, both industrial relations and health and safety, committees, investigations, discipline, etc. Smaller organisations will probably just rely on the regulations.

Finally, it is deemed good practice to consult with your employees regardless of whether you are doing it via a recognised TU representative or not.
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Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 04 January 2016 13:32:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter
There would be an initial process of recognition of the TU by the employer. See:

https://www.gov.uk/trade...ition-employers/overview
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ADALE  
#6 Posted : 04 January 2016 14:58:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ADALE
Thank you Ron Hunter - the term 'Recognised' was causing confusion, and the process. Thanks again
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toe  
#7 Posted : 04 January 2016 20:24:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe
ADALE wrote:
Good morning & happy new year,

'Does the company have to recognize a union appointed representative'?

Thanks in advance


The legal answer to this has to be 'yes'.
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Kate  
#8 Posted : 04 January 2016 20:53:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate
... but only if the company has recognised the union itself.
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firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 05 January 2016 08:47:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101
I believe you will find the following to be correct.

If there is a trade union and there is a rep the employer has to recognise the Rep.

If there is no union and the employees appoint a rep the employer has to recognise that rep.

If there is a union with a rep, and non union members appoint a rep the employer has to recognise both.

if there are two or more reps and they request a meeting the company must allow the meeting, during working time.
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Graham  
#10 Posted : 05 January 2016 12:51:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham
FireSafety101 wrote:
I believe you will find the following to be correct.

If there is a trade union and there is a rep the employer has to recognise the Rep.

If there is no union and the employees appoint a rep the employer has to recognise that rep.

If there is a union with a rep, and non union members appoint a rep the employer has to recognise both.

if there are two or more reps and they request a meeting the company must allow the meeting, during working time.


Really, I don't recognise any of this. My employer does not recognise any trade union and so would need to see the legislation requiring them to recognise a union member as a safety rep or come to that any Tom Dick or Harry the staff decided they wanted as their saftey rep.
Could you point me to the documentation please?
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ptaylor14  
#11 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:03:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14
Graham wrote:
FireSafety101 wrote:
I believe you will find the following to be correct.

If there is a trade union and there is a rep the employer has to recognise the Rep.

If there is no union and the employees appoint a rep the employer has to recognise that rep.

If there is a union with a rep, and non union members appoint a rep the employer has to recognise both.

if there are two or more reps and they request a meeting the company must allow the meeting, during working time.


Really, I don't recognise any of this. My employer does not recognise any trade union and so would need to see the legislation requiring them to recognise a union member as a safety rep or come to that any Tom Dick or Harry the staff decided they wanted as their saftey rep.
Could you point me to the documentation please?


You are confusing different legislation here. The SRSC`s 1977 apply to consultation with reps. The employment rights Act refers to recognising a trade union. Your employer would have to recognise a union if there was a ballot of the workforce to that end
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Ron Hunter  
#12 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:46:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter
Graham wrote:


Really, I don't recognise any of this. My employer does not recognise any trade union and so would need to see the legislation requiring them to recognise a union member as a safety rep or come to that any Tom Dick or Harry the staff decided they wanted as their saftey rep.
Could you point me to the documentation please?



Please see Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996.

Also http://www.hse.gov.uk/involvement/1996.htm
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Graham  
#13 Posted : 05 January 2016 14:20:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham
Thanks for the replies.

I knew most of this it was just the terminology that confused me. It is the employees that choose a non-union HnS rep, but it's the employer who sets the process in motion (or should be :-). I'm not sure how an employer would respond to employees organising this themselves. Although it sounds like they may not have much choice.

The bit about an empolyer having to reconginse a trade union if the workforce ballot decides so I thought had been revoked by Maggie T. But I could be wrong (often am!).
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toe  
#14 Posted : 10 January 2016 14:08:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe
Toe wrote:
ADALE wrote:
Good morning & happy new year,

'Does the company have to recognize a union appointed representative'?

Thanks in advance


The legal answer to this has to be 'yes'.


I stand by my answer to the question posted. If you have a trade union appointed rep (i.e. the company has recognised the union) then the company must also recognise the appointed representation for H&S matters.

If the company does not recognise the union (even if there are union members working in the company) they do-not have to recognise the unions representatives.

The only exception to this rule is where the TUPE Regulations apply, whereby there is an agreement to recognise the Trade Union of some employees, i.e. from the takeover but not necessary others in the organisation.
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toe  
#15 Posted : 10 January 2016 14:13:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe
FireSafety101 wrote:
I believe you will find the following to be correct.

If there is a trade union and there is a rep the employer has to recognise the Rep.

If there is a union with a rep, and non union members appoint a rep the employer has to recognise both

quote]

Not correct - this only applies if the organisation recognises the Trade Union.
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chris42  
#16 Posted : 11 January 2016 08:51:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42
Graham wrote:
. It is the employees that choose a non-union HnS rep, but it's the employer who sets the process in motion (or should be :-).
.


No you don't have to have a non union rep if no union rep, you can as an employer choose to consult direct to each employee. It makes sense to use RoES when you have a larger workforce, but not compulsory.

Chris
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