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Colossians 1:14  
#1 Posted : 05 January 2016 11:44:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

Do they apply to commercial boilers?

paul.skyrme  
#2 Posted : 05 January 2016 12:18:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Does the boiler come under the PSSR?
Have a squint at this:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l122.htm

If it does then quite possibly, it's been a while since I've done any pressure systems stuff, but IIRC, the WSE must be prepared by someone @ IEng or above, thus realistically IEng or CEng.
Colossians 1:14  
#3 Posted : 05 January 2016 12:51:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

paul.skyrme wrote:
Does the boiler come under the PSSR?
Have a squint at this:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l122.htm

If it does then quite possibly, it's been a while since I've done any pressure systems stuff, but IIRC, the WSE must be prepared by someone @ IEng or above, thus realistically IEng or CEng.


I've had a look at that and cant make end or tail of it!!!lol
Ian Bell2  
#4 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:03:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

The basic requirement of the PSSR

The Regulations are concerned with steam at any pressure, gases which exert
a pressure in excess of 0.5 bar above atmospheric pressure and fluids which may
be mixtures of liquids, gases and vapours where the gas or vapour phase may
exert a pressure in excess of 0.5 bar above atmospheric pressure.

This is a direct quote from the ACOP.

So does the boiler contain a relevant fluid? See Figure 1 in the ACOP

(a) steam;
(b) any fluid or mixture of fluids which is at a pressure greater than 0.5 bar
above atmospheric pressure, and which fluid or mixture of fluids is—
(i) a gas, or
(ii) a liquid which would have a vapour pressure greater than 0.5 bar
above atmospheric pressure when in equilibrium with its vapour at
either the actual temperature of the liquid or 17.5 degrees Celsius;
or
(c) a gas dissolved under pressure in a solvent contained in a porous
substance at ambient temperature and which could be released from the
solvent without the application of heat;
David Bannister  
#5 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:12:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Colossians, if your query refers to the tea urn type of boiler with a loose lid then there is no pressure system.
Colossians 1:14  
#6 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:12:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

Ian Bell2 wrote:
The basic requirement of the PSSR

The Regulations are concerned with steam at any pressure, gases which exert
a pressure in excess of 0.5 bar above atmospheric pressure and fluids which may
be mixtures of liquids, gases and vapours where the gas or vapour phase may
exert a pressure in excess of 0.5 bar above atmospheric pressure.

This is a direct quote from the ACOP.

So does the boiler contain a relevant fluid? See Figure 1 in the ACOP

(a) steam;
(b) any fluid or mixture of fluids which is at a pressure greater than 0.5 bar
above atmospheric pressure, and which fluid or mixture of fluids is—
(i) a gas, or
(ii) a liquid which would have a vapour pressure greater than 0.5 bar
above atmospheric pressure when in equilibrium with its vapour at
either the actual temperature of the liquid or 17.5 degrees Celsius;
or
(c) a gas dissolved under pressure in a solvent contained in a porous
substance at ambient temperature and which could be released from the
solvent without the application of heat;


Water Pressure is 6 bar
Water content 8 litres
Gas Pressure 25 mbar

Taking the above information from the spec of the boiler....PPSR would not apply?
Colossians 1:14  
#7 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:15:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

David Bannister wrote:
Colossians, if your query refers to the tea urn type of boiler with a loose lid then there is no pressure system.


No its a question I've been asked and I have sort of scratched an itch. I guess I know the PSSR wont apply but I want to know why they wont apply
Ian Bell2  
#8 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:23:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Provided your pressure units are correct - mbar, then this is much less than 1/2 bar.

1bar is about 1 atmosphere pressure = 14.5psi (approx)

25mbar = 0.025bar.
Colossians 1:14  
#9 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:27:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

Ian Bell2 wrote:
Provided your pressure units are correct - mbar, then this is much less than 1/2 bar.

1bar is about 1 atmosphere pressure = 14.5psi (approx)

25mbar = 0.025bar.


Thanks Ian, yeah definitely millibar on the spec sheet. This is what through me at first because I was reading 0.5 bar in the ACoP but mistakenly reading the 25 bar on the spec! What a numpty!
paul.skyrme  
#10 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:34:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

However, if you read the PSSR, any pressure vessel containing steam at any pressure is covered.
I am guessing that your reference to gas pressure is that it is a gas fired boiler?
The water pressure could be a maximum inlet pressure of 6 bar?
This spec is not quite enough to go on.

If the vessel holds steam under pressure, then it comes under PSSR.
Colossians 1:14  
#11 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:42:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

paul.skyrme wrote:
However, if you read the PSSR, any pressure vessel containing steam at any pressure is covered.
I am guessing that your reference to gas pressure is that it is a gas fired boiler?
The water pressure could be a maximum inlet pressure of 6 bar?
This spec is not quite enough to go on.

If the vessel holds steam under pressure, then it comes under PSSR.


That's chucked a spanner in the works......I thought I had this nailed!!!!!
paul.skyrme  
#12 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:43:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Colossians,

What is the make & model of the boiler?

(Can anyone tell I'm in the office with loads to do, so I'm procrastinating!!!) ;)
Colossians 1:14  
#13 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:48:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

paul.skyrme wrote:
Colossians,

What is the make & model of the boiler?

(Can anyone tell I'm in the office with loads to do, so I'm procrastinating!!!) ;)


Hamworthy Purewell Boiler 180c

How would I find out about the steam issue?
paul.skyrme  
#14 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:51:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Can't find the manual on the Hamworthy site, but to my mind it's a heating boiler yes?
For heating hot water or for building heating.
In which case it comes under PSSR as it will contain steam at pressure, any pressure.
Your company insurer will probably be inspecting this under PSSR for you anyway effectively as they will be inspecting it for your insurance policy reasons.
Colossians 1:14  
#15 Posted : 05 January 2016 13:53:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

paul.skyrme wrote:
Can't find the manual on the Hamworthy site, but to my mind it's a heating boiler yes?
For heating hot water or for building heating.
In which case it comes under PSSR as it will contain steam at pressure, any pressure.
Your company insurer will probably be inspecting this under PSSR for you anyway effectively as they will be inspecting it for your insurance policy reasons.


Yes its a heating boiler.
Thanks Paul for your help
Ron Hunter  
#16 Posted : 05 January 2016 14:25:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

See Figure 1 of L122 ACoP

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l122.pdf

There are also useful FAQs on HSE website.
Ian Bell2  
#17 Posted : 05 January 2016 15:03:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

I assume the gas pressure that was mentioned earlier, 25mbar was the fuel gas pressure for the burner?

As others have said, ultimately its a little bit academic as you are required to maintain and provide safe work equipment anyway.

SO is the 'boiler' providing steam at any pressure or just hot water?
paul.skyrme  
#18 Posted : 05 January 2016 15:17:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

That's a good point actually Ian, the only Hamworthy boilers I've ever worked with have been steam generating.
This one could be simply a water heater like a glorified domestic boiler, rather than a steam generating boiler.
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