Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
jwk  
#1 Posted : 05 January 2016 16:26:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

I've just had a query about BYOD. Who (employer or employee) is responsible for what in terms of compliance with regs, specifically DSE? I'de be interested to know what other organisations do here, as I think I could answer the question in several different ways. So that leaves me feeling confused. Any help gratefully received as always, John
Jimothy999  
#2 Posted : 05 January 2016 16:40:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jimothy999

Not something that has come up for me to date. The requirement to assess the workstation would still lie with the employer I would think. Just found this article on the web that may or may not help: http://www.seton.co.uk/l...d-to-get-a-grip-on-byod/
toe  
#3 Posted : 05 January 2016 23:02:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

I don't have an answer, but a thought - is this a case of back in 1992 the DSE legislation was fit for purpose. In my view, the DSE regs were not originally designed for tablets and smartphones and trying to apply the regulation to these devices ain't gonna work.
safetyamateur  
#4 Posted : 06 January 2016 08:45:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

OK, I'll ask. BYOD?
Alan Haynes  
#5 Posted : 06 January 2016 08:52:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

safetyamateur wrote:
OK, I'll ask. BYOD?
I think it's "Bring Your Own Device" - using your own 'equipment at work
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 06 January 2016 09:28:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

This is very murky from the legal point of view. It was assumed back when the 1992 DSE regs were introduced, that any devices would be supplied by the employer. Now it seems that some employers are ok with BYOD, and some seem to be expecting staff to supplier their own kit. This leads to some concerns with employees buying the cheapest devices that they can get away with and often these might not be suitable for the tasks that there are being asked to do. I would not like to write up a ten-page report on a tablet. I guess most of the time people are being sensible- a tablet being used to store/retrieve pieces of information, mobile phones for sending images etc but we don’t really know what is going on and the old regs do not help. Furthermore, since the changes to legislation in relation to the right to sue for breach of statutory duty came into force employees can no longer go after employers who expect them to use inappropriate kit. I cannot imagine that the HSE will be that bothered with this; they have bigger fish to fry like keeping themselves in existence.
safetyamateur  
#7 Posted : 06 January 2016 09:49:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

Alan Haynes wrote:
safetyamateur wrote:
OK, I'll ask. BYOD?
I think it's "Bring Your Own Device" - using your own 'equipment at work
Cheers, Alan.
jwk  
#8 Posted : 06 January 2016 10:52:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Yes, Alan is right, sorry about that :-) Thanks for all the responses so far; seems I'm right to be unsure of my ground here, John
Matthew Fisher  
#9 Posted : 06 January 2016 11:14:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Matthew Fisher

I think you would struggle to get a uniformed answer here, but I am leaning slightly towards; If the employer is asking/allowing BYOD for work uses then I would suggest that they have a responsibility to assess the items for DSE.
Graham Bullough  
#10 Posted : 06 January 2016 11:50:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

When HSE were devising the 1992 DSE Regulations some 25 years ago I guess that those involved were just responding to issues posed for workpeople sat using what were then conventional non-portable computers with screens and keyboards on desks. As it's unlikely that they envisaged the arrival and widespread use of tablets, smart phones and other portable devices with small screens and tiny buttons or pointer devices as input systems, trying to apply the 1992 Regulations to such devices seems totally futile. In addition to the points raised by Kurdziel at #6, I guess that BYOD raises other issues. As well as data security problems, I suspect that such issues include electrical & fire safety problems because of the tendency for some users to buy cheap counterfeit chargers and power units for their devices either via the internet or dodgy shops without any consideration as to their compatibility or quality of manufacture. In recent years there have been various media reports (including items on BBC TV's "Watchdog" and "Fake Britain" programmes) of fires involving chargers and power units, and also of explosions arising through short-circuiting of counterfeit batteries and/or counterfeit devices. Graham B p.s. The appearance of unfamiliar abbreviations and acronyms on this forum certainly keep me on my toes through having to do internet delving to try and find out what they mean. When I first saw this thread I wondered if BYOD stood for "Bring your own drinks" as a variant of BYOB "Bring your own booze" (or beer) which used to be a standard abbreviation on party invitations in my younger days! :-) p.p.s. By coincidence the CAPTCHA security image which appears as I'm about to post this message is bAnNh. Could this be interpreted as suggesting that employers should resist relying on BYOD?!
James Robinson  
#11 Posted : 06 January 2016 12:02:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
James Robinson

Don't forget PUWER... "Where employees provide their own work equipment for use at work. PUWER also covers situations where employees provide their own work equipment. For example, where builders use their own trowels or hammers" .....see page 14 I know this is a sideways approach, but I think the backstop, which ever way you come to it is that the equipment should be suitable. If someone at work is bringing in their own equipment for use as part of their work, and it is not suitable, then I think it is likely that the employer is going to have to provide something that is suitable.
Ron Hunter  
#12 Posted : 06 January 2016 13:24:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Prolonged use of BYOD devices (inc. hand-held) are captured by the DSE Regs and the parent Directive. The onus remains on the employer to balance the benefits of new technology with potential ergonomic and other risks. Reference to PUWER etc. is correct in that same context. Many employers permit employees to purchase their own tools. Employer duties on safety, fitness for purpose, noise, vibration etc. remain.
jwk  
#13 Posted : 06 January 2016 14:04:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

I'd thought about PUWER, but to my way of thinking that would apply to the electro-mechanical aspects of the equipment, not the usage (though I do understand that PUWER covers use, however if PUWER adequately covered DSE use why would we have DSE Regs in the first place?(indeed, why do we have DSE Regs in the first place?)). And Ron, I agree that DSE applies, I guess my confusion is about the extent to which it applies. I'm quite clear that we would still carry out some form of assessment. But it's not like being in a situation where all DSE is covered by corporate procurement guidelines on fitness for purpose and so on. Could I envisage a situation where managers might be saying 'That device is fit for work use, that one isn't'? That's a bit of a tricky one in my book. So I'm happy that we can lay down rules about use, breaks, posture and so on, but I'm still with Andy K's view that it's all a bit vague. And on the data protection aspects, it's actually our information governance manager who raised this. I think she hopes I'll say, 'BYOD? OMDB!' (over my dead body), as she is having kittens at the idea. But in all conscience I don't think I can, John
Rees21880  
#14 Posted : 06 January 2016 16:14:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rees21880

Agree with the previous posts in relation to PUWER and DSE, however, there is also the possibility that insurance cover is affected - previous insurance policies have stipulated that cover is for company owned and provided equipment. My current employer (an American Parent) has also stipulated that any personal mobile phone number becomes the property of the company from within its IT policy - (paraphrasing a little!) "phone usage and emails on company business remain company property even after the employee has left the company". They've used anti-virus, commercial confidentiality and other reasons for this. Pete
jay  
#15 Posted : 06 January 2016 16:51:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

The overall risks for employers permitting BYOD is more to do with IT Security. The Health & Safety risks aka DSE Regs is to do with ergonomics and not the prescriptive detail in DSE regs--such devices were not in use when the DSE Directive was made. The EU proposal to integrate the Manual Handling and DSE Directives into an Ergonomics directive has stalled. http://www.hse.gov.uk/ab...uronews/dossiers/msd.htm
Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 06 January 2016 21:36:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

regardless of BYOD one thing I had to change in the company (consultant generated) DSE questionnaire was "is the screen at you resting eye level" as it no longer applies to modern laptop use for transient workers - line of sight achieved by tilting the laptop screen backwards as opposed to any specific docking station or stand to lift it to the height of the users eyes.
Roundtuit  
#17 Posted : 06 January 2016 21:36:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

regardless of BYOD one thing I had to change in the company (consultant generated) DSE questionnaire was "is the screen at you resting eye level" as it no longer applies to modern laptop use for transient workers - line of sight achieved by tilting the laptop screen backwards as opposed to any specific docking station or stand to lift it to the height of the users eyes.
toe  
#18 Posted : 07 January 2016 00:04:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

A Kurdziel wrote:
I cannot imagine that the HSE will be that bothered with this; they have bigger fish to fry like keeping themselves in existence.
Absolutely correct. In addition to this comment, I have (real) risks to deal with within our organisation than having to worry about a DSE risk assessment on a person using a smart phone or tablet that they own and are using for work purposes.
jwk  
#19 Posted : 08 January 2016 12:59:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Toe, too right! I'm more worried about our blue-light drivers and rescuing people from trains in floods than about folk using a tablet for a bit of light work, John
Ron Hunter  
#20 Posted : 08 January 2016 17:20:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Disappointing to see IOSH members so readily discounting the potential for chronic health effects arising from poor posture or RSI?
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.