Hi all,

Considering that the RRO and BS9999 state fire escape routes must be kept clear of obstructions at all times, how do shops get away with having displays, clothing etc. on the escape route. Many shops are single entrance/exit to the public as the store rooms are coded access (that do not have an automatic release upon the activation of an alarm). Assuming that they only have one escape route, no matter where you are in the shop, your escape route is not clear of obstructions, and I can't see why this is not a common issue raised with the HSE??

Opinions gratefully received :)

Thanks

Beat me to it!

The RRO states (Article 14)

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14.—(1) Where necessary in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that routes to emergency exits from premises and the exits themselves are kept clear at all times.
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Note the use of the words 'where necessary'. This is where the risk assessment bit comes in. The Govt FS Guides can help (see below). Fire safety is all about time. Ensuring the fire is discovered as early as practicable, the warning is given without delay and ensuring staff can reach a place of safety in a reasonable time.

To allow this, travel distances to a place of ultimate safety (outside) are limited, especially if escape is possible in one direction. Within that space, there must be a space to access the escape route, but goods and stock are allowed.

Where it is not possible to get to a place outside to an ultimate place of safety, it's necessary to bring that place of safety into the building by providing 'protected routes'. These are staircases and corridors that are kept free from combustibles and ignition sources.

For more complex premises, engineered solutions may extend travel distances

I agree that many shops have coded doors to the rear of the public space, some are even marked as fire exits. This may be ok, but rarely is!

Have a look here as the Govt have provided a free download with basic fire safety information. Its a useful read for low to medium risk premises
https://www.gov.uk/gover...ssment-offices-and-shops

They get away with it because there are now so few EHO's that the chances of being "caught" are almost nil. If you have concerns about a specific shop you should raise it with your council EHO or fire service.

Sadly that does not surprise me in the slightest.

Some coded doors do have the ability to release upon alarm activation, but swipe card access with release would probably be better where there is an added security issue. I think part of the issue is its felt that shops are generally low risk, and depending on the type of shop they may well be- it doesn't excuse complacency though.

be interesting to know if this is an independent, small chain or large national retailer. Most of the larger nationals will have sufficient quality of competent advice just not always sufficient quantity and the message gets diluted the further away it gets from the source.

There are companies I could name where the store manager would have a lot more to fear from internal auditors and H&S staff than they would from enforcing authorities.

Safety Smurf, shamefully its national retailers that I know of doing so.

Without naming names, the one that comes straight to mind is a shop (that in order to hide its identity I will call Baker Ted), anyone guess the shop ha

FS101 - good on you!!

My bad. I had forgotten the law unto itself which is fashion retail. The bigger ones are generally better.

With fire safety I have found that their is a difference between an 'escape route' and 'a means of escape'.

My thoughts - an emergency exit must not be obstructed, this is an easy one. However, means of escape is a different and sometimes difficult issue. For example in an office block or hotel there would normally be dedicated (and protected) escape routes, i.e. corridors, stairwells and lobbies, and these must be kept clear. Most big shop retailers due to their large floor sales area's don't have dedicated protected escape routes as such, just exits from the shop floor area. So..... I guess this is why they get away with it, i.e. you can manoeuvre round the displays to aid your escape and therefore your means of escape is not blocked.


I am not in agreeing what is happening in these stored (and some ore worse that others) just trying to give a view on the OP question.

the truth is as PH2 said as there are very few enforcers out there these days so U can have as many laws as U want but with no enforcers how do U enforce your laws and businesses know the situation so do not bother?

and I do not believe that H&S bods outside their work environment have anymore a duty to report things than any other person on the street

'When people start applying common sense the whole thing falls apart'

Always the problem with any legislation and I can see how profit driven businesses will take as many shortcuts as they can.

WRT the duty to report, of course you're right. The idea of the H & S busybody(with no enforcement powers) with the notebook and the camera, checking up on the local shops is the stuff of sitcoms :-)

Single exits from shops are very common, especially in cities such as York where many of he buildings are medieval (in plan at least) and for some reason were constructed without regard to Building Regulations (they don't tend to have cabling for PCs either, medieval people were very short-sighted).

Charity shops have a particular problem with access and egress, as we get our stock through the front door at unpredictable times and in random (sometimes large) quantities. Donations can temporarily block access and egress. We can also have a problem with hoarders; shops managers should follow a strict stock rotation, and stuff that persistently won't sell gets ragged and carted away. Some managers would prefer to hang on to stuff. This problem does get sorted out, but while we are sorting it it can again lead to access and egress problems.

We tackle all this by putting enhanced fire prevention arrangements in place in shops with only one exit. Apart from moving out it's all we can do.

I agree with Ian, we shouldn't confuse fire exits with the ordinary means of entering or leaving a premises, especially in Retail. Where there's only one door, that has to be the 'fire exit' and it is sufficient given decent management of space and storage. After all, in a fire members of the public tend to leave by the door they came in by, no special provision is needed,

John

FS 101, don't misunderstand, we won't tolerate blocked doors, our problems are about keeping gangways clear. It's sometimes a struggle for us is all I'm saying,

John

Fire Safety 101
I would not argue about that. But there is a clear distinction between general retail floors and escape routes, the later being dedicated routes that must be kept clear and in addition have minimal combustible materials in them.

If anyone wants to know about retail FRAs follow this link. https://www.gov.uk/gover...Offices_and_Shops_v2.pdf

I think enforcement of the RRO is by the Fire and rescue Service not EHOs.

Invictus - take care in my company's stores as you may encounter dog!

Ian

Complacent? No.

Unprofessional? No.

Know what I can and can't do in terms of advising? Yes.

Know that the RRO is enforced by Fire Service, not EHOs? Yes.

You choose to take pictures and report, I don't. Others don't.

It doesn't make us any less professional, thanks

Environmental Health are responsible for health and safety in retail and that will cover fire as well, however FRS enforce the rrfso.

Whenever you call the fire safety officer you always get a quick response whereas EHOs are usually too busy to reapond quickly.

I hope that answers your question Toe.

By the way your post #19 suggests you are a little confused about MOE and escape routes.

A means of escape is provided to ensure safe egress from the premises or other locations to a place of total safety.

An escape route is a route forming that part of the means of escape from any point in the premises to a final exit.

Not the same but escape routes are a small part of a means of escape.

The way I see it a means of escape can contain a number of different escape routes all leading to the same place of total safety.