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Evans38004  
#1 Posted : 11 January 2016 07:25:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans38004

I've been asked by a friend to give advice to a company that employs 11.

From what I understand - there are 5 separate teams of 2 operating independently of each other - with each team being a different skill-set / expertise. The 5 teams are mechanical fitters, electrical engineers, plumbers, fitters and instrumentation. The 11th person is the company director / salesman.

The teams never / very rarely work on the same projects so one's teams RAMS will not affect any of the others

The company has a generic safety policy for its activities, accident investigation, PPE, training etc - but the director want to know whether each team of two men need to document their risk assessments? Although they work involves some high risk, none of the 11 see any benefit of documenting how they do things - they are all competent individuals.

Thoughts please - what are the benefits? (if any!!)
stonecold  
#2 Posted : 11 January 2016 08:04:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Compliance with the law, specifically regulation 3 of the The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 would be one obvious benefit.
stonecold  
#3 Posted : 11 January 2016 08:09:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Regards the need to document your risk assessments...If its not written down you haven't done it....A solicitor told me that once.

In my view you would be creating a potential liability for your business should you not document your risk assessments. Especially as some of your work involves high risk.
bob youel  
#4 Posted : 11 January 2016 08:17:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

if u end up in a court the judge etc. wants proof and documented proof is what is the accepted way is, as without documents how do we prove / help prove anything? -- even with only 11 employees the tax man, social security, insurance, clients, quality systems etc. etc. all want documents so why is H&S any different especially so as a director can go to prision re H&S offences whereas its very unlikely that prision waits for failings in most other things?

additionally if you properly assess the way things are done the company many find better ways of doing things hence saving money as has happened many times with me
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 11 January 2016 08:28:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Education and training of new team members joining from outside the business.

Education and training of current employees temporarily or permanently switching teams due to increased business workload or covering for absent colleagues.

Participation in the broader H&S culture within the business.

Those light bulb moments when actually writing it down starts the wider thought processes e.g. maintaining equipment according to manufacturer instruction minimises risk from HAV's.

The ability to include "lessons learned" from near misses and other reporting mechanisms.

A prompt to consider changes in legislation, new industry guidance and best practice during periodic review
Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 11 January 2016 08:28:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Education and training of new team members joining from outside the business.

Education and training of current employees temporarily or permanently switching teams due to increased business workload or covering for absent colleagues.

Participation in the broader H&S culture within the business.

Those light bulb moments when actually writing it down starts the wider thought processes e.g. maintaining equipment according to manufacturer instruction minimises risk from HAV's.

The ability to include "lessons learned" from near misses and other reporting mechanisms.

A prompt to consider changes in legislation, new industry guidance and best practice during periodic review
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 11 January 2016 12:34:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Do not the aforementioned "RAMS" form the bulk and basis of Risk Assessments?
Would one assessment cover document not suffice to capture legal requirements?

Not a huge amount of work, and sufficient hopefully to satisfy commercial body and client's own PQQ processes?
JohnW  
#8 Posted : 13 January 2016 15:12:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Evans,

If your friend's company works as contractor in construction projects, eventually they'll be asked by a responsible CDM-complying Principal Contractor to produce risk assessments, and for these to be specific to the jobs that are planned.

If the company teams have generic RAMS already then these can be a template and reviewed/revised in accordance with the job requirements.

As mentioned above, documented work methods and risk assessments aim to avoid injuries AND to avoid prosecution in the event of injuries.
Bigmac1  
#9 Posted : 14 January 2016 18:14:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Maybe keeping your friends company compliant with the law of the land i.e management regs is surely enough to have them document the R.A.
Just because they are competent to drive a car doesnt mean they can drive with no insurance or MOT. Its not even open for discussion, thou SHALL
Kate  
#10 Posted : 15 January 2016 06:00:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

If they are thinking of the requirement that risk assessments must recorded over a threshold of five employees, they can't use that as a get-out for two reasons. 1. The threshold is 5 employees, ie if you have 5 or more employees you must record. 2. The threshold is for the whole organisation not each team within it.

Look at Reg 3(6) in the Management Regs.
Kate  
#11 Posted : 15 January 2016 06:11:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Sorry, I misread as 2 teams of 5 when it's 5 teams of 2. It makes no difference though - the threshold is for the organisation not the team.
RayRapp  
#12 Posted : 15 January 2016 08:46:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

If, I have read the original question correctly it is about each team recording their own risk assessments and presumably if their is any benefit from this approach.

I have to query why would each team of two operatives record their own RAs? The only reason I can think if they were dynamic RAs via a generic set or proforma for when they arrive on site. This approach has some benefits where the environment may not be familiar or particularly high risk e.g. working at height.

The RA process is a management tool to enable the company to properly identify the risks and controls for their personnel, other contractors and the public. Whilst operational staff may provide some feedback it is not their role to record RAs but their line manager/h&s person.
PIKEMAN  
#13 Posted : 15 January 2016 11:23:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

BENEFITS:- MORAL. LEGAL. FINANCIAL.
JohnW  
#14 Posted : 15 January 2016 13:27:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Bigmac1 wrote:
Maybe keeping your friends company compliant with the law of the land i.e management regs is surely enough to have them document the R.A.
Its not even open for discussion, thou SHALL


Surely if compulsory you mean YOU MUST
sadlass  
#15 Posted : 15 January 2016 13:51:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sadlass

Well said Ray.

I would expect the teams to have some kind of recorded instructions, rules, procedures, about their person.

These will have emerged from the management risk analysis process, (including consultation with those doing the work.).

The company management will need to have records showing that they have dealt with significant safety problems, and the evidence of what 'dealt with' means. They are also well-advised to have a checking regime to ensure that what was arranged, continues, and remains adequate.
I could go on, but whatever, it needs to be simple, effective and easy to keep going or amend.

Deliberately written in 'normal speak' I hope.
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