Rank: Forum user 
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So it is Friday so here’s one!
You cannot use kicks tools because there will not be three points of contact when you’re standing on one so they don’t meet the working at height recommendations!
We need to reach shelves that only people of above average male height can reach so we were going to use kick stools. Someone mentioned that they were not recommended because you won’t have three points of contact?
My view is that this is ridiculous and yet another stick with which to beat the H&S profession. There must be some H&S people with some very odd views.
What do others think though, I’m willing to be convinced but please don’t say we shouldn’t have things that high – I live in the real world where I cannot rent larger office space just because some people can’t reach!
Have a nice weekend
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Rank: Super forum user 
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This is what they use in supermarkets. We use them all the time and I have seen them everywhere, I suppose having common sense should be a prerequisite for H&S.
Remember your risk assessment!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Use them. What are they, about 16 inches high ? 3 points of contact to get something of a slightly high shelf is madness.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Graham wrote:
You cannot use kicks tools because there will not be three points of contact when you’re standing on one so they don’t meet the working at height recommendations!
Who says?
just a poor interpretation IMHO
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Rank: Super forum user
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paulw71 wrote:Use them. What are they, about 16 inches high ? 3 points of contact to get something of a slightly high shelf is madness.
I thought they were 18 ins, but i stand to be corrected! I do training for the use of these, it's a half day and only costs £150.00 per person. Anyone need training on the use of these contact me, because you must have no common sense and are gulible.
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Rank: Forum user
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Who says?
just a poor interpretation IMHO
It was an experienced H&S person, well qualified, with many years experience as far as I'm aware.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Who says?
just a poor interpretation IMHO
It was an experienced H&S person, well qualified, with many years experience as far as I'm aware.
And!
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Rank: Super forum user 
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We've got thousands of them in use. Just be wary that not mounting or dismounting them correctly can damage them and cause them to collapse under load. trying to be sensitive here, realise also they have a SWL.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Are you standing in the middle of nowhere to use them?
Or next to secure surfaces that can, y'know, be used for contact'. ;)
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Rank: Super forum user 
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You are classed as working at height when stood on the floor next to a trench. When stood on the floor you also do not have three points of contact (generally). If you do have three points of contact, you may have fallen over already.
Perhaps we should de-evolve back to monkey stage and use all fours. Also good for climbing things (when did you last see a monkey fall out of a tree ?).
:0)
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user
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The following link to the HSE's response to an enquiry about the use of step stools/kick stools and training may be of interest. I also recall the HSE producing an advisory note some time ago (2010?) for their Inspectors about the use of kick stools and the supposed conflict with WaH Regs. If I can find a link to that document I will post it.
http://webcommunities.hs...ight/view?objectId=13043
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Rank: Super forum user
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It's a stool and not a ladder, therefore the three points of contact do not apply here. Ensuring that it is in good working order, good contact tread and the operators move it to where they need to be instead of over reaching is of greater importance.
Fun post, now back to work I go...
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Rank: Super forum user
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It would be better if the wheels stayed out when you got on it, imagine the fun you could have scooting around the office. Also as a practical joke you could get people to use it and fall off.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Invictus wrote:It would be better if the wheels stayed out when you got on it, imagine the fun you could have scooting around the office.
That reminds me of the 'good old days' when we raced around the warehouse on pallet trucks. I was really good at that. Two wheeled cornering!!! Loved it...
Glad its Friday
Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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Further to my earlier posting the document I was referring to can be found at;
http://www.hse.gov.uk/fo...lops/ocs/200-299/200_31/
The internal ops document is about the application of the WaH Regs in general and implementing the hierarchy of control measures. It contains the comment;
........"The bottom of the hierarchy will still allow a librarian to use a kick stool to retrieve a book providing the kick stool is well maintained and the user has received briefing in its safe use ie no overreaching etc. The bottom of the hierarchy can be used to justify the use of ladders and step ladders for the same reasons......"
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Rank: Super forum user
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On a serious note for a minute.
We use kickstools every day- about 2000 employees and we have only had one incident with them.
Basic safety controls- make sure they aren't defective, don't ask the colleague to pull down boxes that weigh more than they do!
Its not THAT much of a risk using them.
Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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Andrew W Walker wrote:Invictus wrote:It would be better if the wheels stayed out when you got on it, imagine the fun you could have scooting around the office.
That reminds me of the 'good old days' when we raced around the warehouse on pallet trucks. I was really good at that. Two wheeled cornering!!! Loved it...
Glad its Friday
Andy
Yea the company I worked for we use to race them through the wide corridors by the paint shop. We used to get picked up at the gate by someone on a truck with a trailer after spending the afternoon in the pub, play football and cricket on the roof.
Ahh the good old days, except we were also burnt by the primer paint, breathed in paint stripper all day due to the lack of PPE, anyway just popping back on the oxygen! But they were still good old days!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chris42 wrote:You are classed as working at height when stood on the floor next to a trench. When stood on the floor you also do not have three points of contact (generally). If you do have three points of contact, you may have fallen over already.
Perhaps we should de-evolve back to monkey stage and use all fours. Also good for climbing things (when did you last see a monkey fall out of a tree ?).
:0)
Chris
Talking of monkeys I once worked in British Library where monkeys were trained to retrieve volumes from the high shelves thus eliminating any risk to the library bods from falls. It worked fine for a while until the monkeys went on strike for more bananas and simply refused to come down from the modern crime section.
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Rank: Super forum user
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quote=Invictus] Andrew W Walker wrote:Invictus wrote:It would be better if the wheels stayed out when you got on it, imagine the fun you could have scooting around the office.
That reminds me of the 'good old days' when we raced around the warehouse on pallet trucks. I was really good at that. Two wheeled cornering!!! Loved it...
Glad its Friday
Andy
Yea the company I worked for we use to race them through the wide corridors by the paint shop. We used to get picked up at the gate by someone on a truck with a trailer after spending the afternoon in the pub, play football and cricket on the roof.
Ahh the good old days, except we were also burnt by the primer paint, breathed in paint stripper all day due to the lack of PPE, anyway just popping back on the oxygen! But they were still good old days!
Yeah- good old days.
I'm glad that I did those things- and many more. Like the time we wrapped a guy to a pallet, lifted him with the FLT and then put him on top of a stack of 200L oil drums. Great fun at the time.
Then I moved over to the 'dark side' and you se the consequences of some of the things we did. Something as innocuous as talking to a HGV driver as he unloads his trailer- we were standing at the back (no dock leveler in them days!). One guy did this at one of our London depots and a cage full of parcels fell on him.
He was off work for 18 months and was in pain for the rest of his life- sadly passed away a few years ago.
I remember that a colleague made a comment about his payout- it was a 6 figure sum- and the look in his eyes when he said 'I'd give it all back if I could stop the pain', really stuck with me.
I don't mind being a party pooper now and stop people from enjoying themselves at work by riding on pallet trucks or having an 'exclusion zone' around trailers when they are being unloaded so they can't natter with the drivers. I'd rather be ridiculed and disliked than have someone say 'I wish I'd have listened'.
Seeing both sides of the coin has been a benefit to me.
Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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Agree with your sentiments totally,sometimes it not the things we done for a laugh but the things that were expected of you or you would be sacked and there were a lot of people waiting to take your place.
When I worked in one place, I put an area out of use by pedestrians, as it was a vehicle gate they were walking through and no-one was allowed through in case they got hit by the FLT's. I left and the new H&S allowed this to be used again, someone has been injured and unlikely to return.
And they ridculed me when I put it in place as they had done it for years.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chas wrote:The following link to the HSE's response to an enquiry about the use of step stools/kick stools and training may be of interest. I also recall the HSE producing an advisory note some time ago (2010?) for their Inspectors about the use of kick stools and the supposed conflict with WaH Regs. If I can find a link to that document I will post it.
http://webcommunities.hs...ight/view?objectId=13043
Good advice from the HSE. Had this issue last year and did a little tool box talk (20 minutes if that) about kick stools referring to the points mentioned in the HSE guidance. Our issue seemed to be people trying to use the kick stools to gain access to high shelving.
You do not need three points of contact.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Andrew W Walker,
have PM'd you.
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Rank: Super forum user
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A Kurdziel wrote:Chas wrote:The following link to the HSE's response to an enquiry about the use of step stools/kick stools and training may be of interest. I also recall the HSE producing an advisory note some time ago (2010?) for their Inspectors about the use of kick stools and the supposed conflict with WaH Regs. If I can find a link to that document I will post it.
http://webcommunities.hs...ight/view?objectId=13043
Good advice from the HSE. Had this issue last year and did a little tool box talk (20 minutes if that) about kick stools referring to the points mentioned in the HSE guidance. Our issue seemed to be people trying to use the kick stools to gain access to high shelving.
You do not need three points of contact.
Never had that problem we just put one on top of the other, jobs a good'n.
(for those people looking for advice, that was a joke, you should put it on a table, because there is more room.)(still a joke)
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Rank: Forum user
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Chris42 wrote:You are classed as working at height when stood on the floor next to a trench. When stood on the floor you also do not have three points of contact (generally). If you do have three points of contact, you may have fallen over already.
Perhaps we should de-evolve back to monkey stage and use all fours. Also good for climbing things (when did you last see a monkey fall out of a tree ?).
:0)
Chris
As it's the day after Friday:
;-)
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