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Career Advice for Australians moving to the UK!
Rank: New forum user
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Hi,
I'm an Australian who is currently moving to the UK and looking for work in OHS.
In November last year I completed a 3 year Australia bachelor degree in OHS (which qualifies me as Grad IOSH member- so I'm guessing my bachelor degree would be equivalent to a NEBOSH diploma)
I currently work in the Australian Aviation industry with an Airline as Cabin Crew and a health and safety representative (so I have some practical experience in implementing and monitoring health and safety initiatives and conducting workplace audits ect.)
I am wondering what further study should I complete to be considered for a full-time OHS role in the UK?
I'm considering undertaking:
- NEBOSH National Certificate in the Management of Health and Well-being at Work
- NEBOSH Certificate in Environmental Management
- NEBOSH National General Certificate in Occupational Health and Safety
What also qualifications/experience are UK employers looking for?
Thanks kindly,
Nerise
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi
First of all good luck. This post may come across as negative but its intention is purely to give you an accurate assessment of the H&S job market in the UK.
Firstly job prospects depend largely where you are going to live in the UK and what field you are going to work in. South East and London offers the best job opportunities and salaries (IMO) however rents and cost of living is high (prohibitively so if you are unemployed or just in a junior position starting out on a low salary).
Secondly the UK H&S job market is already saturated with even highly qualified and experienced people struggling to find work in many areas and industries. Plenty of university graduates entering the jobs market every year. Numerous ex military personnel leaving the forces and entering the H&S field having done the Nebosh Certs and Diploma. The recent downturn in the oil industry has also brought back a lot of H&S people to the jobs market.
As you can see if you are new to the profession and the Country you really are going to have an uphill struggle as you are entering a very competitive field.
In my opinion and to improve your prospects of getting a job I would do the environmental qualification as more and more employers seem to be specifying this (or similair) on general H&S job vacancies. Once you get a foot in the door then you can decide on a more specialised route if that`s what you want.
This is just my opinion and you will probably get lots more advice. Best of luck whatever you decide.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I agree with paulw71.
The job market is poor in the UK at the moment, despite with George O and his posh mates say.
No recovery in the economy from were I am.
Think carefully before coming to the UK seeking a H&S job - lots of people looking at the moment.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Paul & Ian are correct
best of luck for your future
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Rank: Super forum user
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As above really. Currently, the market for safety bods is depressed with employers using the glut of safety bods to drive down salaries. With traditional industries in decline and HM forces shedding front liners more and more bods are seeking work. There are more safety bods than firemen in the UK and breaking into niche roles presents a real challenge. Despite the current situation which is unlikely to change in my opinion, NEBOSH and the training providers continue to churn them out to the job market.
Last October a major contractor known to me had 117 applications for a site safety advisor. The job went to a coded welder with an NVQ Level 5. He has turned out to be a tremendous asset on the job. He also acts as a supervisor. The employers now want more than just "safety" from the incumbent.
I would think very carefully about just gaining a "safety" qualification, try for a good engineering degree first and then move over to Safety Engineering. Plenty of work in that discipline.
In any event best wishes for the future.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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While there is work in safety engineering - even this sector is very depressed at the moment - due to the obvious reason of low oil prices.
Little or no design/development projects underway - where many safety engineers work.
Nuclear work comes in 'fits and starts'.
At the moment I wouldn't recommend anybody wasting their time and money training to be a safety adviser/professional etc via NEBOSH or working in any safety role.
As others have said - the job market is flooded with potential applicants at the moment, driving down salaries etc.
As quoted 'NEBOSH and the training providers continue to churn them out to the job market'.
If you can find something else to do..... then do it.
If I could, I would get out of safety and return to a more general engineering role.... which I'm trying to do.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Sorry to say it but we must face the truth as Ian B2 has hit the nail on the head and this situation covers most occupations as the recession is still very much alive and well irrespective of what the news & TV say
try to get yourself into a trendy, and well paid, type of occupation e.g. personal trainer
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Rank: Super forum user
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I'm not sure the best advice for you would be to throw in the towel and retrain in something else when you have just spent the past three years working for a bachelor degree in OHS.
If you are looking at the aviation field then best to look at where the airports are. There are more than you think, from Gatwick/Heathrow to smaller places like Lydd (although I don't know about the opportunities for those smaller ones).
It is true the market is depressed, but that's across many industries in the UK. I think that sometimes the grass looks greener on the other side.
Sorry Bob but if you look in the job sections you will find that most personal trainers earn very little and only the chosen few get to enjoy the big paydays.
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Rank: Super forum user
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"If you are looking at the aviation field then best to look at where the airports are."
Very possibly the wisest piece of career advice I have ever seen on this or any other forum.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Had to smile at Paulw71 post.
However - not all aviation work is near airports.
BAE in Preston and Airbus at Broughton (Chester) to mention just two that I can think of quickly.
But everything else said here is true to a degree.
Employers tend to insist on H&S people having direct experience of their own particular industry:
Manufacturing; Engineering; FM; Construction; Logistics; Financial sector (eh?); Education (we've all got experience of that surely?). This can be very limiting and difficult to 'break into'.
Yet H&S is predominantly taught and managed along the lines of topics / hazards: Asbestos; COSHH; work at heights; electrical; RIDDOR; CDM; fire; wellbeing etc. And broad-brush PDCA, policy etc.
Then there are the different styles & tactics, often related to particular role: Compliance - auditing, systems, legal standards etc. Training, coaching, mentoring, influencing. 'Hands-on' v 'strategic' etc.
My advice would include trying larger H&S / Environmental consultancies who may take on graduates they can mold to their own style.
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Rank: Super forum user
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paulw71 wrote:"If you are looking at the aviation field then best to look at where the airports are."
Very possibly the wisest piece of career advice I have ever seen on this or any other forum.
Thanks for taking one sentence out of context! As an Australian moving to the UK he may not have been aware as to the number of airports there are in this country, other than the main few. I think if you look at the whole paragraph, you will find this has been explained.
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Rank: Super forum user
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WatsonD wrote:paulw71 wrote:"If you are looking at the aviation field then best to look at where the airports are."
Very possibly the wisest piece of career advice I have ever seen on this or any other forum.
Thanks for taking one sentence out of context! As an Australian moving to the UK he may not have been aware as to the number of airports there are in this country, other than the main few. I think if you look at the whole paragraph, you will find this has been explained.
Just a bit of lighthearted humour pal. No offence meant.
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Rank: Forum user
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Nerise87 , Just to kick it back in another direction what's the work like over in Aus for Brits thinking of making the opposite move? (Duel national, so hold an Aussie passport, no point socres for me)
Cheers
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Nerise, firstly ignore all of the above....
You are already qualified - so that is another misnomer put to bed. Fine if you want to cross reference your existing knowledge but be assured it is the IOSH professional membership that opens doors and people get through that with many types of tickets.
You are experienced in the aviation industry (I suspect mainly 'front of house' but I am sure there are administration aspects as well, so direct experience in customer relations and public f2f working - this is used in much wider circles than just aviation; for example public sector and especially in the hotel related industries. You also have some experience of inspections /audits.
That is before I have met you......
You 'are' coming to the UK, and you do want work....
Important factors are where and what type of salary are you expecting (probably lower here but then so is cost of living).
No need for details but if I was you I'd draft a matrix wish list and check it against vocational growth curve -you won't get everything you want straight away s how do you get there say in 2-3 years?
Also consider the periphery - for example IOSH recruits people and it is a growing need to have international staff. Consultancies need people who are not bound by expectations or ideas, Australia House employs many people around the UK.....
Good luck and stay positive - there are plenty of jobs here. I believe we are at the lowest unemployment for a decade or more. And if there is nothing obvious then you have to create a need for someone to create a role for you. You have the advantage of being used to larger horizons - use it!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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A tad irresponsible I say to advise "ignore all of the above".
The OP should at least consider the responses (all of which were offered in good faith and dare I suggest based on reality) rather than just ignore them.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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Nope -I disagree, still ignore them, they were all negative and not really offering constructive advice against the question asked imho. I think man of the comments stem from personal experience and not (with the greatest respect) addressing the question as it was asked. (mmm.... sound familiar?)
Please allow me to clarify the question;
1. I am wondering what further study should I complete to be considered for a full-time OHS role in the UK?
2. What also qualifications/experience are UK employers looking for?
We got;
uphill struggle, job market is poor, niche roles, engineering (OP is cabin crew), throw in the towel.... etc
But the OP can consider me an irresponsible fool - most do.
This is a forum - just adding my 3d worth
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Rank: Super forum user
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Steve - you are simply wrong.
The job market is dire at the moment, even for very experienced h&s guys.
To simply say ignore 'the above' is bordering on reckless.
All the posts in this thread are not negative - just a healthy does of reality.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Ian Bell2 wrote:Steve - you are simply wrong.
The job market is dire at the moment, even for very experienced h&s guys.
To simply say ignore 'the above' is bordering on reckless.
All the posts in this thread are not negative - just a healthy does of reality.
Spot on!
To the OP, come over you are more than welcome and you have most of what you need to join IOSH.
but be aware of the reality, which Ian sums up.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Ian; I am seldom simply and never _____ . "..bordering on reckless....." mmmm, not sure I agree with your perception of risk. I'd say most of the above comments were a personal dose of reality, which is fine but not what was asked for.
I just answered what I read to be the posting#1 in my own little way with focus on the facts and question as given ... hope the OP found it useful even if the contributors didn't.
Happy Landing Nerise (but wait until spring at least - it will still be winter here for you).
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Rank: Super forum user
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Similar to David Cameron telling MPs not to listen to eurosceptic constituency associations. IOSH top brass acting similarly.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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It seems it isn't just me who has the same view of the h&s job market currently in the UK.
I also was simply advising the OP, in this case to invest quite a lot of time effort and money in studying, that it probably isn't worth it at the moment.
Not all of us swallow the IOSH line.
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Rank: Super forum user
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personal? political? helpful? accurate? Do we still have the ASA?
What exactly is IOSH 'Top Brass'. I cleaned the kitchen yesterday and brasso'd the tap - I call that top brass now, is it the same thing?
I hereby declare that I am from this moment relegated to IOSH 'rusty bits'. There are far shinier people around.
Maybe we can import some sunshine from Aus - I hear they have a lot of gold plated talent.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Ian Bell2 wrote:Steve - you are simply wrong.
The job market is dire at the moment, even for very experienced h&s guys.
To simply say ignore 'the above' is bordering on reckless.
All the posts in this thread are not negative - just a healthy does of reality.
I struggle with the comments around a a dire job market - there is plenty of roles out there, its just the pay may not be great or the role doesnt fit with a particular career outlook. If you've you're wits about you and have the right fit - you'll do just fine over here and find 'a' safety role, albeit maybe not your first choice in the first instance. At 24 i've been through a similar process of job hunting etc and am now in a post which I can see is for life.
As for comments on the nuclear situation being in fits and starts - decomissioning of sites is likely to go on till post 2100, and will require safety input throughout. We're recruiting year on year, have an ageing staff demographic and pay above and beyond average salaries so would argue the nuclear sector is pretty steady, if not likely to improve further. I talk at numerous careers events to young teens and school leavers about careers in safety - I don't tell them the job prospects are rubbish - because they're not. If they've something new to offer or have real drive to make safety their career - they'll do well. As with most advice - its based on personal experiences normally, but i dont take such a pessimistic view.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Jay,
I wish I was as young and optimistic ;-)
I know the job you have and you were ideal for it with your experience mix. Others have not been so lucky.
Things are pretty dire with well experienced CMIOSH out of work, employers can pick & choose at the moment.
Nuclear is up & down, maybe not where you are but nationally.
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Rank: New forum user
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Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.
Seeming it looks to be a tough job market I am wondering which NEBOSH certificate would give me
a greater advantage? In addition to my OHS Australian Bachelor I also have a post grad in Human Factors so I thought completing a 'NEBOSH National Certificate in the Management of Health and Well-being at Work' would be a great on my CV.
However, many people have advised me that UK employers really value environmental studies so I'm wondering if completing a 'NEBOSH Certificate in Environmental Management' instead would open more doors?
Thanks again,
Nerise
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Rank: Forum user
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Nerise,
I have just read through all the responses in your post and can see there is a real mixed bag which likely does not help you very much with your decision to jump over or not.
Having just spent the last five years in WA working on a large resources project I got to know the Aussie mentality pretty well and have to say I generally found them to be a tough resilient lot who are not afraid of a good challenge.
My humble advice to you would be to network as much as you can and take full advantage of forums such as this and start looking at situations vacant in the various publications including this one and utilising the various professional agencies that abound these days.
I believe many of the respondents are correct in their assessment of the current job market and I am all too keenly aware of the declining O&G markets globally; however there is still a market for young keen professionals who can demonstrate a desire and willingness to provide a service and learn more.
I would certainly take the plunge and try this cold and wet country out for a six month spell at least and as the old saying goes.....its not what you know; but who you know..... So get the old feelers out and start building up some relationships which might or might not help you secure a HSE role in aviation, nuclear, construction or whatever......Good luck in your endeavors...
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