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Should this not be posted on the "IOSH Matters" forum?
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David Bannister wrote:Should this not be posted on the "IOSH Matters" forum? Absolutely not! There should be complete transparency on this issue and no 'hiding place'. There is a lot that is good about Iosh but the cost of the conference is not one of those. It is shamefully expensive and if you work for a public service like I do there is no km chance of having attendance funded by your employer. So you inevitably miss out on listening i to some inspirational and 'big hitters r' health and safety speakers.
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It keeps out the cheapskates?
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Because it's got that famous fella talking, you know errr whats his name, he done something once and now he can talk about all sorts of stuff.
I think it is like everything if you don't like the price don't go, if only a few people turn up then IOSH will get the message. Why doesn't someone start a petition for IOSH members to sign and then send it in to the top person.
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This topic comes up every year about the same time. Another example of the powers that be being completely out of touch with rank and file IOSH members.
Incidentally, Liverpool Football Club supporters walked out early in a game at home in protest at tickets being priced at £77 - seems a bargain in comparison if you ask me.
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I've been to 2 in the past 20 years. The hype never matches the content. Its a waste of time even if it was free.
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No way do I think it's worth that amount of money - you don't even get a gala dinner thrown in. Too expensive by far.
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OK - I am a fence sitter on this.... but just try this.... If it was renamed; UMB International Safety and Health Expo, Conference and Scientific Forum (other titles are available) would you think differently? (name changed for legal reasons)
I did not ask; 'would you go'..... but would you think differently about the event and its relative value to the world of working safely?
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No, it would not make any difference. IOSH Conference is a good enough name, renaming this wouldn't make it any more or less appealing. I don't think health and safety bods are that shallow.
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Steve,
If you are asking "should IOSH put their name to this bunfight" then its a resounding no from me.
IOSH needs to concentrate on providing resources to benefit the majority of members and not a small elite.
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RayRapp wrote:
Incidentally, Liverpool Football Club supporters walked out early in a game at home in protest at tickets being priced at £77 - seems a bargain in comparison if you ask me.
And i was one of them, i know some friends whose season tickets are going up over £200, if we accept it then they'll keep doing it... In respect of the conference, no way on earth would work pay £710 which is the member early bird cost for me to go, and more than that there is no way i could afford to pay it myself, if i was spending that kind of money it would be on a course beneficial to my employment.
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Steve
Not sure where you are coming from, but the name is irrelevant. Indeed there are other events such as Health and Safety Expo which is free to attend. However it is more of a sales event than a conference.
I have only ever been once when the company paid for my ticket. I would not have paid for it as a consultant and now work in local government...I would not go anyway due to the exorbitant price.
Why can't we have a more modestly priced conference, without all the bells and whistles and expensive speakers. I'm sure there is enough expertise within the membership who would gladly give up some of their time to put on a great show. I for one would volunteer.
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Hally wrote:RayRapp wrote:
Incidentally, Liverpool Football Club supporters walked out early in a game at home in protest at tickets being priced at £77 - seems a bargain in comparison if you ask me.
And i was one of them, i know some friends whose season tickets are going up over £200, if we accept it then they'll keep doing it... In respect of the conference, no way on earth would work pay £710 which is the member early bird cost for me to go, and more than that there is no way i could afford to pay it myself, if i was spending that kind of money it would be on a course beneficial to my employment. Thing is you had already paid for your season ticket so there was no finacial cost to the club. I do think it needed to be done and applaud all those who walked out. any back to the issue, if people don't buy the ticket then IOSH would realise that the cost is to high. It would be good to know how many IOSH members are attending.
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People - my point is that the name seems to imply that it should be low cost to 'the IOSH members' and it is their (membership) right to have a low cost conference in a high cost venue and top class speakers flown in.
In reality we get many low cost activities and regional events; from branches, groups and more.
This is the showcase. It is market priced by a commercial organization - not IOSH (I may be corrected here). It is set in a prestigious location to attract sales of both exhibition space and delegates with a view to a) recovering cost and b) making a margin. The agents event team are employed year round.
I concur with the sentiment and feeling of exclusion to this conference -which is, imho wrong. But I can go to the free exhibition and free events surrounding the plenary chamber.
Just saying 'I won't be going, full stop!' is a bit like biting ones nose to spite the face.
I suspect people in ivory towers are listening and hearing... but do remember the rules of contract, sales, and of course marketing. We are not all customers for this event. But I suspect it will be full - so someone is, and they will have a good time and (as every year) feedback that is was a very valuable few days.
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Invictus wrote:Hally wrote:RayRapp wrote:
Incidentally, Liverpool Football Club supporters walked out early in a game at home in protest at tickets being priced at £77 - seems a bargain in comparison if you ask me.
And i was one of them, i know some friends whose season tickets are going up over £200, if we accept it then they'll keep doing it... In respect of the conference, no way on earth would work pay £710 which is the member early bird cost for me to go, and more than that there is no way i could afford to pay it myself, if i was spending that kind of money it would be on a course beneficial to my employment. Thing is you had already paid for your season ticket so there was no finacial cost to the club. I do think it needed to be done and applaud all those who walked out. any back to the issue, if people don't buy the ticket then IOSH would realise that the cost is to high. It would be good to know how many IOSH members are attending. The first bit, basically it was done with about 3 days notice so wasn't feasible for anyone not to turn up (sold out apart from a few late availability) so a massive point was made, more so when in those last 13 mins plus injury time, we conceded twice and drew. Second bit (and obviously on topic) would be interesting to know if at the price charged do IOSH actually make a profit or break even, or are our subs subsidising 'free' tickets?
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Hilary - obviously the financials are confidential and out of my knowledge anyway, but we can discuss the general situation.
Firstly 'profit' is a term I'd rather avoid. 'Surplus' can be shared out according to the contract relationship - if it came back to IOSH it would be used as any surplus produced by IOSH is; 'to meet our charitable objectives' and that includes subsidizing membership fees, producing free guidance, subsidizing network events, undertaking consultation of changes to law and management systems etc etc.
Secondly the 'free tickets' and jollies for the team...... Grrr!!!!! Over the last few years I have had a number of these so called 'freebies'. Basically working very hard before during and after said 'freebie' to ensure IOSH remains in pole position. I don't get paid for doing it, I don't get compensated for not working, I claim only certain expenses but do not recover the whole of my personal outlay to be a volunteer, whilst I am away my business stops, whilst I am away my business is prevented from moving forward and when I get home I have to work twice as hard to catch up.....
Yes I get travel paid and meals provided - thanks for that, but the understanding of free tickets needs to be put in context - very little in life is actually free when all is said and done, but those that do these things seldom speak their frustration at this (rather demeaning) label ....
Over the years I guess I have given no less than 500 days to IOSH, I am a freelance consultant and I pay my membership every year. Someone 'do the math' as our more commercially minded US cousins might say. Please understand this was given and is not in anyway to say that I got nothing from the investment. I would do it all again - but 'freebies'.... grr.
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Steve Granger wrote:Hilary - obviously the financials are confidential and out of my knowledge anyway, but we can discuss the general situation.
Firstly 'profit' is a term I'd rather avoid. 'Surplus' can be shared out according to the contract relationship - if it came back to IOSH it would be used as any surplus produced by IOSH is; 'to meet our charitable objectives' and that includes subsidizing membership fees, producing free guidance, subsidizing network events, undertaking consultation of changes to law and management systems etc etc.
Secondly the 'free tickets' and jollies for the team...... Grrr!!!!! Over the last few years I have had a number of these so called 'freebies'. Basically working very hard before during and after said 'freebie' to ensure IOSH remains in pole position. I don't get paid for doing it, I don't get compensated for not working, I claim only certain expenses but do not recover the whole of my personal outlay to be a volunteer, whilst I am away my business stops, whilst I am away my business is prevented from moving forward and when I get home I have to work twice as hard to catch up.....
Yes I get travel paid and meals provided - thanks for that, but the understanding of free tickets needs to be put in context - very little in life is actually free when all is said and done, but those that do these things seldom speak their frustration at this (rather demeaning) label ....
Over the years I guess I have given no less than 500 days to IOSH, I am a freelance consultant and I pay my membership every year. Someone 'do the math' as our more commercially minded US cousins might say. Please understand this was given and is not in anyway to say that I got nothing from the investment. I would do it all again - but 'freebies'.... grr. So people do get freebies then, so Hally was right some are given out. The fact that some have to work to get them makes no difference are they offered to all in the IOSH community? I have never been offered one. I also think that they are offered to companies so that they have representation at the conference, Like you I have been a member for a long time never been offered anything except the threat that I would not be allowed to do anything or use IOSH initials (which I don't anyway unless I paid my subs.
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Firstly, I would not have considered going to the conference anyway. Having looked at the speakers and their relevance to my particular work situation I did not feel that there was much that would be of any great practical benefit. I always ask myself the question: "What will I bring away that will have direct beneficial effect on what I do?"
Secondly, I will not be going to the 'free' exhibition either. This would not be free for me. I am based in west Gloucestershire. To visit the exhibition at Excell would mean both an expensive rail journey. Since I could not travel there and back in a day and still spend a reasonable length of time at the exhibition to make it worthwhile it would mean an overnight stay and two days out of my work schedule. I used to go when it was at the NEC. I will be visiting the Health and Safety Event. Why did IOSH reposition the venue to make it inaccessible to many of us and then still expect us to go? I wonder how many others will not visit the exhibition for the same reason.
Chris
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I have never been able to afford to attend the event as I would be self funded. Did go to the free exhibition a few years ago when it was held in Harrogate as that was minimum cost. I have been to a number of cheaper Health and Safety events that I could afford but its hard to compare value for money. Some people have mentioned the price of Liverpool Football Club season Tickets - I pay a lot less for my Bradford City Ticket am I getting a poorer Saturdays entertainment for my money? (that's rhetorical by the way no answers needed!)
As for people attending as freebies - I help out with a local safety event 3 times a year. They are some of the hardest days work I do! (again no comment needed thanks) and I would not consider it a freebie for anyone attending to represent the members interest.
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So which industries can afford to send their people ( and are there any jobs going ?)
Someone must go or it would fizzle out from lack of participation.
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I wouldn't even bother to ask mine.
The question back to me would be: 'Can you justify the cost to the business?' The answer is 'Nope'. Even if it was half the cost I would still struggle.
Andy
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Hi
I've been every year for the last 15 years, I'm lucky my employer pays, but I'm giving it a miss this year as even I'm feeling it's not great value for the company now. I went to the Health and Wellbeing at Work conference at the NEC Birmingham last year for £37.50 if you sign up for annual membership of the Health and Wellbeing network. Two days with about 10 different streams per day and many of the same speakers as at IOSH. OK there is a focus on health and wellbeing and some HR related streams. But you still get streams on leadership, employee engagement, human factors and a range of other H&S related sessions plus a small exhibition.
great value at an easy to access venue.
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Steve Granger wrote:Hilary - obviously the financials are confidential and out of my knowledge anyway, but we can discuss the general situation.
Firstly 'profit' is a term I'd rather avoid. 'Surplus' can be shared out according to the contract relationship - if it came back to IOSH it would be used as any surplus produced by IOSH is; 'to meet our charitable objectives' and that includes subsidizing membership fees, producing free guidance, subsidizing network events, undertaking consultation of changes to law and management systems etc etc.
Secondly the 'free tickets' and jollies for the team...... Grrr!!!!! Over the last few years I have had a number of these so called 'freebies'. Basically working very hard before during and after said 'freebie' to ensure IOSH remains in pole position. I don't get paid for doing it, I don't get compensated for not working, I claim only certain expenses but do not recover the whole of my personal outlay to be a volunteer, whilst I am away my business stops, whilst I am away my business is prevented from moving forward and when I get home I have to work twice as hard to catch up.....
Yes I get travel paid and meals provided - thanks for that, but the understanding of free tickets needs to be put in context - very little in life is actually free when all is said and done, but those that do these things seldom speak their frustration at this (rather demeaning) label ....
Over the years I guess I have given no less than 500 days to IOSH, I am a freelance consultant and I pay my membership every year. Someone 'do the math' as our more commercially minded US cousins might say. Please understand this was given and is not in anyway to say that I got nothing from the investment. I would do it all again - but 'freebies'.... grr. ______________________________________ I have to support Steve here. It is hard work as a volunteer representing members across the country in all forms of contact. Like Steve I have given 100's of days and have many hundred to give still. The reason I do it is that I get great enjoyment in helping other members develop and the profession. The Freebies that you are all so quick to put down is only given out to those members that have key busy roles at these event, they are not attending for joy, they are working. The only true freebies available are those offered each year to each Branch and Group, and they go to members not companies. Thames Valley Branch raffle these to members that attend the Branch meetings and not the good and great as referenced in this thread. Anyone who volunteers for IOSH no matter at what level, works hard, Branches and Groups do not run themselves, standing committees do not govern themselves and Council is a members representative body. Do not have a go at the hard work that has been done in the past, now and in the future by members. Without them you would not have a professional Institution that is recognised around the world. Yes contribute, but respect the work that other put in. Regards Graham
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Just to clear up any confusion, i was referring to free tickets being given out, not and i repeat NOT for those who have put in lots of work for free this year, last year or any year and although they might be going for free are still working not as a jolly...
Yours Hilary Hall ;)
Oh and my catcha image thingeymebob is vipFi
Might change name to Fiona...
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I will not be attending.
Perhaps if it were approx £100 I may be able to get my employer to pay. But its mad money really.
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