Hi all. I've just completed the DSE assessments for my workplace, but I have a couple of concerns regarding some of the office staff. A small group have requested back rests, citing lack of support from their chairs. Unfortunately, their back issues are nothing to do with a lack of support from the chair in my opinion. All of these users are working on laptops, but none of them are using the laptop risers or separate keyboards and mice that they have been provided with (variety of reasons for this were given to me) - consequently, their posture is horrendous and they are all hunched over their desks. I have explained to them that back rests are pointless in this scenario, as their backs won't even make contact with them, but they are all adamant that they don't have the same issues at home and that the chair is at fault. My questions are: a) I'm very reluctant to cost the company money buying back supports which I don't believe will solve the problem...however, as they've raised the issue and it is now documented, is it recommended that I go ahead and supply them? b) They are essentially refusing to use the risers/keyboards/mice they've been supplied with...is it enough to document this and keep copies of any correspondence relating to it, or should I go down a more formal route of asking them to sign to say that they are not using the equipment out of their own choice?

Thanks very much for this. There's no suggestion that the DSE that they've been provided with can't be used for medical reasons, nor that it's causing them any kind of injury. It can all be boiled down to 'it's uncomfortable/I don't like it'. The chairs are brand new, extremely good quality, fully adjustable and have an excellent back rest (if your back actually ever touches it, that is). I tend to lean towards flexibility myself, but I honestly think that if I did provide back supports, after a month they'd end up in the same cupboard as the laptop risers. I will have another chat with them tomorrow and see if I can make any progress in getting them to use the equipment provided - I'm loathe to go down a disciplinary route if only due to the inevitable complaining about 'Elf and Safety gorn mad etc. etc.

I have a real issue with the DSE regs and I think they are one set of regs that actually do need looking at rather than wasting time on that self employed nonsense Not saying that we don't need some kind of regulation regarding DSE but the way we work now has changed dramatically since 1992. Laptops, blackberrys, tablets, more and more people working from home or in hotels rooms ,trains you name it. I mean who even had a computer at home in 1992. Also young people coming into the workforce now have already had probably 10 yrs exposure exposure to computers and other gadgets before they even strart their working life Sorry rant over!

I think the DSE regs. should be scrapped

Another thing you can do is organize a short workshop/presentation for the use of DSE. I guess you should have done this before you go through the assessment but better late than ever. Make sure that especially the people who do not use the equipment provided are present and the message is passed. On the other hand, the supports are extremely cheap. You can buy a single one to demonstrate that it is not suitable for their situation, if it comes down to it. Have them trained, make sure they know how to use the equipment you provide and what they know and use is adequate. Have yourself and the company covered. Last but not least, pass the message to senior management and let them know (I guess you have already done it).

Hi everyone, and thanks for all the responses - they were really helpful. I've actually had a really good chat with the ladies concerned this morning with their manager present, and they've agreed to give the risers and separate mice/keyboards another go before we go down the back support route. They've agreed that if they notice any actual discomfort from using them, they'll let me know and we'll look at the situation again. Everything is documented - I have to say, I'm very lucky in that everyone here is pretty reasonable when it comes to making adjustments to the work place for Health and Safety reasons, and management are actually very supportive which is quite a refreshing change (it is for me anyway!). One of the reasons I was hesitant to escalate it is that it would be a shame to make it a negative thing when people are generally quite positive about it at the moment.

Years ago when few used let alone owne computers I would of agreed, but now most people have them or tablets or mobile phones. Do they sit correctly at home for the remaining 5/6 hours and all weekend no they lounge around, lean forward becuase its on a coffee table etc. So were did the injury come from you could have them sitting correctly and in half an hour the have moved something, I used to do DSE assessments and realised there was no point, it was yet another back saving exercise for the company.

Interestingly some recent ergonomics courses I've been on mention the 120 deg recline as the angle astronauts adopt whilst sleeping. This, it is suggested is the natural angle the body likes to adopt. Since then I tell people to rock back and relax whilst reading and scrolling through e-mails. Only sit up and straight up and adopt ‘the posture’ when they’re typing loads – which most don’t seem to do.

Granted I used the word Moron in post #12 when referring to people who don’t care if their staff get hurt. (I would use stronger language but not in writing in public.) I didn’t mention the M word in post #15, which is the one quoted. Granted the final sentence is easily misinterpreted – just shows the difficulty in communications doesn’t it. I meant that most people do not spend a great deal of time typing long tomes on their computers, not that they don’t set up the chair correctly. The point I was trying to make (and failing) is that it’s changing posture regularly (as well as breaks) that makes it less likely that you’ll get hurt using a computer. I still stand by the idea that the regs are needed because there’s plenty of employers out there who ignore them and don’t actually care about their staff. All regulations are about ACE (Arse Covering Exercise) so we can say I complied with what the rules say. That’s why we have to write everything down whether we do it or not if it’s written it was done – end of. I do worry however about using a tablet, and writing with a stylus on one of these (smile joke! (Friday)) What’s the difference between this and reading a hard copy and writing in a notebook? It seems because it uses electricity and a screen it could come under these regs and would therefore need risk assessment. This is stupid in my view. But that does not mean we don’t need controls on what I and my employers require of our staff.

Even better than revising - scrap them. There we go - one easy tick in the deregulation box. The HSWA says it all. It is up to employers to figure out way to ensure H,S & W. There is plenty of guidance out there for resolving ergonomic challenges. Regulations mainly exist to make the enforcers job easier. And I have yet to find any indication of an enforcer caring either way about DSE regs.

At my previous company we got hold of a "Smart Chair". This chair had pressure pads in it that would record how a person sits and for how long they sat in that position. With this information we could tell when they weren't sitting correctly. We could then advice them how to sit properly and was also handy showing this information to the user when they tried to blame the chair.

I would agree with much of Jim's comments, however, the question is, do the DSE Regs deal with this? Mostly they are out dated and the Welfare Regs, HASAWA and HSE guidance would be a far better solution.

Good post Graham. I understand your context with regards to 'morons' and that you are not referring to health and safety bods. If in one business there are no significant health and safety risks associated with use of DSE then in reality the assessment and controls required are going to be very simple and easy whereas in another there may be significant risk and so more is required. I think that is being proportionate and is the way it should be. I would rather see the regulations improved upon, and brought up-to-date to take account of technological developments. Regards

If there was a way of measuring this mystical characteristic "common Sense" then perhaps we could make it a tangible part of the Risk assessment. It is and amazing statement "common sense" as it implies the fault always lies with the injured person

Hi, I recall years ago whilst working for a large organisation with 20.000 staff being ask by a friend to assist him with difficult employees. The brokers were actually saying to do this assessment I could be losing 100's of thousands of £'s if they fine me I will write the cheque right now, likewise the accounts were saying we charge our Clients £1000+ a day ask them who they want the cheque payable to. Needless to say these were all recorded so we held a record that the individual decline the assessment. I used to assess and set people up only to see them re adjust chairs, desks and worktops whilst I was walking away but my job was done I had their assessment and signature for any subsequent claims from RSI. Have you though about electronic DSE assessment whereby the person can do them in their own time? This is the way we went. With regards to the scrapping of the DSE I think we could but I do think we need something our there a little watered down. Good luck