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CdC  
#1 Posted : 29 February 2016 10:53:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CdC

This is the response I got from the HSE for Prosecution cases for work related driving using personal vehicles. I thought I'd share it here. Makes interesting reading before engaging with some lawyers/consultancies: Dear CdC, Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 201602074 Thank you for your request for information about: "Whether HSE are aware of any legal cases where a company was prosecuted under the HSWA/Corporate Manslaughter/H&S regulations due to vicarious or direct liability of one employee driving in a personal vehicle causing injury." I have spoken to the Head of the Transport Sector in HSE and he is not aware of a specific case. HSE publishes our prosecutions on our website, see: HSE - Register of prosecutions & notices. However, a word search in the case summary field for “personal vehicle” does not identify a relevant case. The information supplied to you continues to be protected by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. You may re-use this information (not including logos) free of charge in any format or medium, under the terms of the Open Government Licence.
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 29 February 2016 12:20:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

To be honest I cannot fathom out what the HSE response is saying or what exactly you are highlighting. Presumably the lack of prosecutions involving a private vehicle and employee, which I'm not really surprised given the Road Traffic Act will be the vehicle for prosecutions and not h&s law.
CdC  
#3 Posted : 29 February 2016 12:25:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CdC

There have been a number of responses in the forum that that companies have been prosecuted under the H&S law for employees causing injury/death while using their personal vehicles for work related activities. for example, see here: http://forum.iosh.co.uk/...&m=735377#post735377 I was always interested to find out what the actual legal case was, but nobody could answer me. Hence I queried at the source.
jwk  
#4 Posted : 29 February 2016 13:04:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Well, not for work-related activity, this one was actually for somebody driving home: http://www.aviva.co.uk/r...r-fatigue-related-death/ John
johnmurray  
#5 Posted : 29 February 2016 13:17:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Try the same request with the POLICE, not the increasingly office-bound HSE. Here's a TUC piece about the subject (shock/horror): "The TUC estimates that, of the 1200 drivers of cars, buses, trucks and lorries every year, about one in four, 300 people, were at work when they lost their lives. Many more workers will have been killed as passengers, pedestrians and on motorbikes and bicycles. And tens of thousands will have been injured. This makes occupational road use the single biggest cause of workplace death. In fact, road traffic accidents while at work comprise the majority of all workers’ accidental (as opposed to illness-related) deaths. In 1998, about 250 workers were killed in workplace accidents excluding road deaths – fewer than died while at work on the roads" http://www.unitetheunion...UC%20guide%2911-5010.pdf " Did you know that: Four times more people are killed whilst using the road for a work-related purpose than for all other workplace activities combined? In 2012 there were 1,754 fatalities and 23,039 serious injuries on Britain’s roads? It is estimated that about one-third of these casualties were using the road for a work-related purpose? This equates to about 12 people every week losing their life while driving for work. Over 80% of road crashes are the direct result of driver error. If we include those crashes where vehicle defects were partly or wholly responsible then this figure rises to over 90%? A staggering 35% of businesses don't even check their employees' licenses? Car and van drivers are among those most at risk? Most work-related road deaths and injuries do not have to be reported under RIDDOR although employers have a duty to manage Occupational Road Safety effectively" http://www.drivex.co.uk/managing-driver-risk/ Stop looking for a way-out of blame. Start doing your job.
CdC  
#6 Posted : 29 February 2016 14:29:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CdC

jwk wrote:
Well, not for work-related activity, this one was actually for somebody driving home: http://www.aviva.co.uk/r...r-fatigue-related-death/ John
Ah! Intriguing... thank you for sharing this case.
CdC  
#7 Posted : 29 February 2016 14:34:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CdC

JohnMurray wrote:
Stop looking for a way-out of blame. Start doing your job.
The internet is charming as usual. Loving a judgemental post on a Monday! I believe in making decisions based on factual evidence, hence my opening post.
Mr.Flibble2.0  
#8 Posted : 29 February 2016 14:59:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr.Flibble2.0

JohnMurray wrote:
Try the same request with the POLICE, not the increasingly office-bound HSE. Here's a TUC piece about the subject (shock/horror): "The TUC estimates that, of the 1200 drivers of cars, buses, trucks and lorries every year, about one in four, 300 people, were at work when they lost their lives. Many more workers will have been killed as passengers, pedestrians and on motorbikes and bicycles. And tens of thousands will have been injured. This makes occupational road use the single biggest cause of workplace death. In fact, road traffic accidents while at work comprise the majority of all workers’ accidental (as opposed to illness-related) deaths. In 1998, about 250 workers were killed in workplace accidents excluding road deaths – fewer than died while at work on the roads" http://www.unitetheunion...UC%20guide%2911-5010.pdf " Did you know that: Four times more people are killed whilst using the road for a work-related purpose than for all other workplace activities combined? In 2012 there were 1,754 fatalities and 23,039 serious injuries on Britain’s roads? It is estimated that about one-third of these casualties were using the road for a work-related purpose? This equates to about 12 people every week losing their life while driving for work. Over 80% of road crashes are the direct result of driver error. If we include those crashes where vehicle defects were partly or wholly responsible then this figure rises to over 90%? A staggering 35% of businesses don't even check their employees' licenses? Car and van drivers are among those most at risk? Most work-related road deaths and injuries do not have to be reported under RIDDOR although employers have a duty to manage Occupational Road Safety effectively" http://www.drivex.co.uk/managing-driver-risk/ Stop looking for a way-out of blame. Start doing your job.
The key words in all that 'Estimates' and 'Estimated'
safetydude1  
#9 Posted : 29 February 2016 15:16:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetydude1

RayRapp wrote:
To be honest I cannot fathom out what the HSE response is saying or what exactly you are highlighting. Presumably the lack of prosecutions involving a private vehicle and employee, which I'm not really surprised given the Road Traffic Act will be the vehicle for prosecutions and not h&s law.
Ray, For those who seek the truth (I include myself) patience must be granted.
jwk  
#10 Posted : 29 February 2016 15:42:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Mr Flibble, these aren't estimates as in 'guesses', these are statistical estimates based on reports, and within certain limits do have some validity, John
johnmurray  
#11 Posted : 29 February 2016 16:29:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"The police now record purpose of journey when investigating reported road accidents. In 2012, 169 people were killed, almost 3,000 people were seriously injured and over 23,000 slightly injured in accidents involving a driver or rider who was commuting to or from work" http://www.orsa.org.uk/h...asked-questions/#content https://www.gov.uk/gover.../rrcgb-2012-complete.pdf Page 100 of the above. Just because not many, if any, employers have been prosecuted, does not absolve them from responsibility.
pseudonym  
#12 Posted : 29 February 2016 16:35:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

So if I crash my car commuting to work that's my employer's fault? So if I die walking on my way to the Post Office is that the fault of the Post Office? I'm a bit confused here. I can see how travelling home after work might involve the employer in some sort of moral responsibility for my tiredness, but if I'm too tired to drive to work and do so - that's got to be my responsibility hasn't it?
CdC  
#13 Posted : 29 February 2016 16:53:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CdC

My opening post was not about commuting to and from work, but using a personal vehicle on work related business. Commuting to and from work is not work related activity, so those stats are muddying the water. @JohnMurray: you may believe that a company is trying to wriggle their way out of responsibility, but as a H&S advisor, having a court case as a precedent can also be a great lever to get managers jump to attention! However, anybody with some statistical background will be able to question those numbers and point out how they do not relate to a specific business case. Hence the need for factual information in a decision making process.
jwk  
#14 Posted : 01 March 2016 09:40:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

The case I cited was about commuting from work, it's true, and I do know that the original query was about the use of private cars at work. I don't know (off hand) of a case where an employer has been prosecuted for a case involving an employee driving their own car at work, but in the case I mentioned, if that employee had been at work rather than on his way home I'm pretty sure there would have been a prosecution. I'd certainly be happy to use that argument with my senior managers and board, John
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