Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages<12
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Invictus  
#41 Posted : 03 March 2016 12:29:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

stonecold wrote:
JohnMurray wrote:
Interesting. Seems rugby is less safe than soccer. What a surprise. Seems rugby is at the top of the list: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....df/brjsmed00012-0019.pdf Page 4, table 3.
Well if soccer is number 2 then maybe the morons will try to stop contact in that next, or juts ban it its easier.
Sorry I thought they had that's why players fall down before they are touched!
jodieclark1510  
#42 Posted : 03 March 2016 12:53:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

As a martial artist I'm amazed how low its ranked- then again my style involved training with weapons so maybe we were a bit more brutal at times! I think everyone came out bruised and/ or bloodied at least once :-) we sure leaned quickly how to stop it happening again!
IanDakin  
#43 Posted : 03 March 2016 13:03:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

JohnMurray wrote:
Interesting. Seems rugby is less safe than soccer. What a surprise. Seems rugby is at the top of the list: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....df/brjsmed00012-0019.pdf Page 4, table 3.
Not only that but Rugby causes injuries of a more serious nature. Just below the table. "ERM (Table 3). The risk of ERM in soccer with a rate of 64.4/1000 occasions, which was similar to field hockey (62.6/1000 occasions), is approximately 50% less than in rugby. The difference in risk between rugby and other activities was greater for substantive injury incidents (rugby 57.7/1000 occasions compared to 22.3/1000 occasions in martial arts and 19.5/1000 occasions in soccer). Excluding those injuries which resulted only in a restriction of participation in the sport for at least one day, the difference was still wider with the risk of injury in rugby nearly four times the risk in soccer." Invictus - you are right, I had little option in sports at school. Football or Football. I am so bad at it when I take a football to the park with my dog, he puts me in goal (when we are not in the office together of course.)
Invictus  
#44 Posted : 03 March 2016 13:07:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Nooooooooooooooooo! not animals in the office, please!
John J  
#45 Posted : 03 March 2016 13:10:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John J

Perhaps if you look at it this way... Children develop at different rates. When I played rugby at school I was stick thin but quite tall with a bit of pace. Others were small in stature and we had 3 or 4 lads who you'd basically class as grown men. Is it acceptable for a 6' 13 stone boy to tackle (often with malice) a lot smaller slower developing child? This is the concern relating to the injuries.
Invictus  
#46 Posted : 03 March 2016 13:14:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

John J wrote:
Perhaps if you look at it this way... Children develop at different rates. When I played rugby at school I was stick thin but quite tall with a bit of pace. Others were small in stature and we had 3 or 4 lads who you'd basically class as grown men. Is it acceptable for a 6' 13 stone boy to tackle (often with malice) a lot smaller slower developing child? This is the concern relating to the injuries.
On the news it was the little lad who was saying if they take tackling out of it they would spoil the sport. This has always been the way, maybe you look that it will toughen the little lads up and don't assume the the smaller children are the weaker ones.
stonecold  
#47 Posted : 03 March 2016 13:22:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

If this type of thing is allowed to carry on, e.g nannying, wrapping people in cotton wool, banning contact sports, basically being risk averse, can you imagine what our society will be like in 2 generations time. Timid, scared, frightened little people who are too afraid to leave their homes incase they are hurt in some way or another. OMG theres a dog it might bite me run!...Jeez its raining, omg a rain drop might fall in my eye RUN RUN!! lol
JohnW  
#48 Posted : 03 March 2016 14:00:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

.... The sort of society that some science fiction writers predicted in the 1950s
RayRapp  
#49 Posted : 03 March 2016 14:07:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Can you imagine a scenrio where National Service is re-introduced...no nor can I. It was before my time, however the do gooders and doom and gloom brigade would trot out all sorts of reasons why UK citizens could not be drafted in...it will breach my Human Rights for starters! While we are about banning anything dangerous I have put together a non-exhaustive list of sports and pastimes which could result in an injury - boxing, mountaineering, pot holing, football, cricket, horse racing, speedwy, F1 and other motor sports, ice hockey, skating, skiing...
Roundtuit  
#50 Posted : 03 March 2016 14:17:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

And apparently it isn't only concusssion from playing..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35710232 takotsubo cardiomyopathy may be triggered by your favourite rugby team winning
Roundtuit  
#51 Posted : 03 March 2016 14:17:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

And apparently it isn't only concusssion from playing..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35710232 takotsubo cardiomyopathy may be triggered by your favourite rugby team winning
JohnW  
#52 Posted : 03 March 2016 16:12:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

And then there's the stress of losing a game and worse still...... Relegation :o/
Corfield35303  
#53 Posted : 03 March 2016 16:42:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Corfield35303

RayRapp wrote:
Can you imagine a scenrio where National Service is re-introduced...no nor can I. It was before my time, however the do gooders and doom and gloom brigade would trot out all sorts of reasons why UK citizens could not be drafted in...it will breach my Human Rights for starters! While we are about banning anything dangerous I have put together a non-exhaustive list of sports and pastimes which could result in an injury - boxing, mountaineering, pot holing, football, cricket, horse racing, speedwy, F1 and other motor sports, ice hockey, skating, skiing...
Most of these sports, if not all are elective, that's fine, take risks if you want to. There are 1000s of children being made to play rugby on a compulsory basis. Children being forced to play a contact sport... and you see that as OK? You also have no idea about national service, it is just about the worst thing that can happen to a military organisation, when these people go to war they often do not want to fight, do not fight well (aim to miss) and are poorly disciplined. The military never complains when the draft is dropped as it invariably leads to a keen, volunteer based and more professional army.
watcher  
#54 Posted : 03 March 2016 16:46:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
watcher

stonecold wrote:
If this type of thing is allowed to carry on, e.g nannying, wrapping people in cotton wool, banning contact sports, basically being risk averse, can you imagine what our society will be like in 2 generations time. Timid, scared, frightened little people who are too afraid to leave their homes incase they are hurt in some way or another. OMG theres a dog it might bite me run!...Jeez its raining, omg a rain drop might fall in my eye RUN RUN!! lol
Interesting I've never played rugby, yet I'm none of those adjectives you cited. I maintain if you want to play rugby, there are 1000s of rugby clubs you could join. Proper rugby coaches, people that want to be there. In schools, it is so different. Touch rugby can achieve the teamwork, fitness, health targets. It's not about wrapping anyone in cotton wool.
grim72  
#55 Posted : 03 March 2016 16:47:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

If some people had there way there would be no extreme sports, no exploration of space, no crossing of roads, no driving of cars etc etc. You can't stop dangers at every level but in my opinion nor should we. Where would be the exhiliration of climbing a mountain without hard work and a few heart stopping moments? I sympathise with people/children getting injured while playing a sport (it's happened to me on plenty of occasions) but then again I also have a little laugh while watching people fall over on You've Been Framed etc. Injuries/accidents happen, we try our best to minimise the risk but the day we truly do become a nanny state then you have to wonder how we will ever manage to open a door without fear of what might be on the other side. If my son comes home with bruises/scrapes after a game of football I'm fine with that, I'd be more worried if he came home without breaking a sweat :-)
6foot4  
#56 Posted : 03 March 2016 16:52:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
6foot4

American Football evolved from Rugby Union. In the 1920/30's American Football was reviewed due to the number of fatalities - they introduced helmets, or PPE for all you wonderful safety people. It seems it might have helped to reduce short term fatalities but there are now longer term side effects due to helmets clashing etc. If the UK rugby union teams wish to remain competitive, any changes to the rules, and the way the game is played have to be carried out internationally, or you can quite literally kiss the competitive edge they hold (well, as a southern hemisphere team supporter, I can't say they've been that competitive anyway - what is it 7 world cups to 1 in nearly 30 years?). Unless of course, any safety features introduced enhance the capability of the players. Also, most professional players have been playing the game since 5 or 6, with contact starting at a fairly early age. If the age for when contact training is allowed differs, I know which country I would back. The one whose players have been playing the game for longer. In the professional era, players are bigger, stronger, fitter quicker and this is due to better training and nutrition (although perhaps certain supplements and steroids whether banned or not make a big difference). The forces experienced during collisions and impacts are likely to be bigger too. That aside, injuries are common to almost all parts of the body, knee injuries fairly frequent. Playing with a broken nose is the done thing. Would I want my son to play rugby? It's something I've grappled with a lot. He's being playing since he was 20 months (rugby tots) and for a six year old has some good skills. I nearly enrolled him with a local club - but he had also started karate when he was 4, and I've since decided that's a better option. Why? Well, with my H&S hat on, injury in rugby is inevitable. Yes, it could happen in karate, but its non-contact for now. Most rugby players play with some form of injury or other, and it's quite common for players to play with more than one injury. If they didn't, they wouldn't be playing much. Also, whilst he is big for his age, he's not aggressive in any way and I'm not sure he's that into rough and tumble. He tends to shy away from that. He's likely to exceed my height, 1.95m (6ft4 in old money), and with a mum that is nearly 5ft10, I would imagine he is going to be tall. Plus, I've been told I'm built like a proverbial brick ****house, so the kid is going to be big - and if he is athletic enough and chooses to pursue it, could do well in a number of sports. So after my long diatribe, could rugby be made safer? They are working on it. But major changes could change the game from what it was. This is tradition folks. 150 years odd. People vote with their feet. Rugby is like a modern day Roman gladiators contest. For as long as people enjoy the spectacle, and are willing to pay to watch and marketers can make money by investing in advertising around the game, and teams have money, and players can earn money, it will attract people to play the game. Money aside, many many people play the game simply because they love it. But, excuse the pun, the playing fields have to be levelled on the international stage or UK team, despite best intentions, trying to keep people safe will could fall behind if those safety measures make their players less competitive. On another note, have we made the products we consume safer? A lot of the manufacturing industry has been exported to other countries with less favourable safety conditions. We've exported the risk to keep the products we love. H&S has a cost. Its might be good business, but only when the playing fields are level can it be truly competitive.
RayRapp  
#57 Posted : 04 March 2016 08:24:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

The problem with introducing helmets (PPE if you prefer) as in American football it encourages a more aggressive form of the game because the chances of being injured are reduced. Long term issues may result. It is a similar concept where the introduction of cars with many safety features such as air bags, seat belts, ABS, etc, encourages people to drive faster on the false premise they are insulated from a serious accident. That's true, I know nothing about National Service. However if as a young man I had been called to protect my country I would have gladly stepped up to the mark; as my father did in WWII and my Grandfathers in did WWI.
hilary  
#58 Posted : 04 March 2016 09:07:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

Let kids have the choice - to play rugby or to take on a different sport - football, basketball, tennis, long distance running, cross country, etc. Even when I was a school in the dark ages we had the choice of sports to do, a different one each term. Any parent who objects can make sure their kid opts out of rugby but I totally disagree that this should be banned. My brother in law had an accident at exercise class on Wednesday night, broke and dislocated his ankle, shattered the bone and needed an operation yesterday morning - there was no one else involved. At what point do we stop doing everything because we are so risk averse we become completely ridiculous?
MikeKelly  
#59 Posted : 04 March 2016 10:20:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MikeKelly

I reckon tag rugby would be just as beneficial, maybe better for the kids-no need for them to be brutal to show their skills. I went to secondary school in Wales back in the dark ages, maybe Hilary's time, too or even further back. I couldn't stand the game personally, particularly having to throw the ball backwards when running the other way. How daft is that? Being bigger than most of my student fellows didn't make it any better and I witnessed some nasty injuries and behaviour with nothing to commend the game. [And our games master was a British Lion and Cardiff player] It's a good thing that I could throw a javelin [not at anyone although a friend nearly got an umpire] and play cricket-no protective helmets, etc either! Cooperation better than competition anytime but that's another topic. Regards Mike
Invictus  
#60 Posted : 04 March 2016 10:53:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

I am all for bringing the kids sports football, rugby etc to summer for some age groups 6-10 year olds. I referee all ages but it concerns me that when I do the youngsters during the very cold winter months they are playing in kits and shorts. I refused to kick off a game for the under 8's because the wind chill was -4, I was then abused by a parent in a big coat, gloves, hat, long pants and boots telling me it was a mans game, I pointed out that they where infact babies and if it wasn't that cold he could take his coat of etc and stand there for the half hour. He didn't even put his flask of hot tea down. The poor kids where shaking. What happened to child welfare.
biker1  
#61 Posted : 04 March 2016 16:49:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I certainly wasn't advocating trying to remove all risk, that's not what health and safety should be about, and if I thought like that I probably wouldn't ride a motorbike. Apart from the impossibility of removing all risk in life, such a world would be incredibly tedious, and I wouldn't want to live in it. I seem no harm, though, in looking at some things we have historically accepted and seeing if it is still a good idea, but at the end of the day, there is personal freedom to take into account.
johnmurray  
#62 Posted : 07 March 2016 06:02:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

And there was me thinking that soccer was not a contact sport. The idea is to play a game, not get brain injury.
Invictus  
#63 Posted : 07 March 2016 07:44:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

After listening to tyh earguements over the weekend, news reports etc. I have to agree if you can make it safer you should, they were talking about the ability to tackle, individuals abilitiy not just looking at age and size and if up to a certain age they play touch rugby to keep the kids safe then why not!
WatsonD  
#64 Posted : 07 March 2016 08:30:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

I agree Invictus. I commented on this earlier, about it being blown out of proportion due to the small number of protests and the small statistics quoted. I am a Rugby fan. However, it is important to remember that no one is voting to ban Rugby as a sport. The suggestion on the table is: whether in normal PE classes, we should be introducing kids to full contact Rugby or rather touch Rugby? I think that as an introduction to give kids a feel for the pace and tactics on the game, touch Rugby would probably encourage more interest. Those that show interest can opt to join the school team training or a local club, where they will be introduced to the full contact side of the game, having first understood the ethos of the game, they will be making a choice to participate. I can't see this hurting the game. In fact, I can now see that this could help a better appreciation of the sport.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages<12
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.