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Russ1977  
#1 Posted : 07 March 2016 11:47:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

Hi all, Currently having a bit of a disagreement regarding edge protection for roof areas, I am of the opinion that is should be present with no exceptions. However, a colleague is adamant that having a demarcated route from one point to another is sufficient. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Regards Russ
imponderabilius  
#2 Posted : 07 March 2016 11:55:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
imponderabilius

What's the purpose of accessing the roof? You have to provide everything that's reasonably practicable to ensure safety of employees. If the roof is accessed once a year, installing permanent barriers might be practicable but not reasonable - in this case temporary restriction would suffice. However, marked route on its own might not be enough - it falls in the same category as "sign" to me - it is marked, but whether it helps or not is down to an individual who might decide to step off of it for a second... Remember to eliminate, substitute, use engineering controls, safe system of work and ppe as last resort to control risks - usually in this order (but not always). If there is no way to do the job from the ground, installing permanent barrier might be a good solution but only if employees work there often. If not, maybe access the roof using cherry picker? As I said, I don't know the nature of the job and reason for accessing the roof, so it's difficult to judge. Write something more about it please.
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 07 March 2016 12:07:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

It sounds like a flat roof (as opposed to say a pitched roof), so it depends on whether there is a parapet wall at a sufficient height, if not an exclusion area is permitted without fixed edge protection under certain circumstances. More info required.
Russ1977  
#4 Posted : 07 March 2016 12:25:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

hi guys, thanks for both replies. To give you some more info, the roofs while not used on a daily basis, are used by contractors to access lift plant rooms, certain plant and for gully clearance. So while its not an everyday occurrence my concern is that having none and marking out routes may not be enough. Particularly as individuals may decide to stray from the suggested route and no parapet walls are present. Hope this helps to clarify? any further guidance would be appreciated. Thanks
George_Young  
#5 Posted : 07 March 2016 13:05:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
George_Young

We use a ManSafe cable-based system for our roof, We only use our roof for cleaning gutters and other maintenance duties, so normally twice a year. http://www.hclsafety.com...d-Horizontal-Systems.asp
Russ1977  
#6 Posted : 07 March 2016 14:38:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

so essentially we could use man safe as a means of controlling the risk instead of edge protection?
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 07 March 2016 14:39:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

russ1977 wrote:
hi guys, thanks for both replies. To give you some more info, the roofs while not used on a daily basis, are used by contractors to access lift plant rooms, certain plant and for gully clearance. So while its not an everyday occurrence my concern is that having none and marking out routes may not be enough. Particularly as individuals may decide to stray from the suggested route and no parapet walls are present. Hope this helps to clarify? any further guidance would be appreciated. Thanks
Hi Russ, so is it a flat, pitched roof or what? I suggest you check out the following HSE guidance and if you have any more queries come back with specific details - http://www.hse.gov.uk/se...%20safety&gsc.page=1
Ali Sooltan  
#8 Posted : 07 March 2016 14:43:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Ali Sooltan

Guys !! All you need to do is to follow the WAH 2005 hierarchy of controls, which is crystal clear and yes it is not an absolute duty but afarp. Basically consider; preventing falls (collective over personal) > fall mitigation (collective over personal) > Training / supervision / instruction etc as being the last.
RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 07 March 2016 14:55:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Ali Sooltan wrote:
Guys !! All you need to do is to follow the WAH 2005 hierarchy of controls, which is crystal clear and yes it is not an absolute duty but afarp. Basically consider; preventing falls (collective over personal) > fall mitigation (collective over personal) > Training / supervision / instruction etc as being the last.
Thanks for that enlightenment - very useful.
Russ1977  
#10 Posted : 07 March 2016 14:57:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

RayRapp wrote:
russ1977 wrote:
hi guys, thanks for both replies. To give you some more info, the roofs while not used on a daily basis, are used by contractors to access lift plant rooms, certain plant and for gully clearance. So while its not an everyday occurrence my concern is that having none and marking out routes may not be enough. Particularly as individuals may decide to stray from the suggested route and no parapet walls are present. Hope this helps to clarify? any further guidance would be appreciated. Thanks
Hi Russ, so is it a flat, pitched roof or what? I suggest you check out the following HSE guidance and if you have any more queries come back with specific details - http://www.hse.gov.uk/se...%20safety&gsc.page=1
Flat roof, sorry thought I'd mentioned that, being a doughnut today. :)
HSSnail  
#11 Posted : 07 March 2016 15:07:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Russ Have seen similar situation to what I think you are describing. Rather than provide barriers for the entire roof I have seen barriers provide just on the "walk way" the guys use to reach the plant room, and round the plant room if needed. Can be a much cheaper option and still provides a "safe place of work" as required by the regulations. Seen similar access used to the gully's and then use a "gully walker" for the actual clearance. If work is to be done outside this marked area then additional barriers or temporary safe system of work is provided.
chas  
#12 Posted : 07 March 2016 15:20:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

It is worth noting that if you are working on roofs (particularly fragile roofs) and thinking of painting lines on the roof or use bunting and the like on the roof to demarcate 'safe' routes or boundaries the HSE's view in their guidance on 'H&S in roof work' is, to quote...." the boundary does not need to comply with full edge protection standards, but there should be a continuous physical barrier (a painted line or bunting is not acceptable)".
jontyjohnston  
#13 Posted : 09 March 2016 11:54:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jontyjohnston

Russ Just had the same issue with a newly constructed building. The contractor installed an anchor system which was completely inappropriate as it had to be used with a fixed 1.2 meter lanyard. When clipped on you could not reach the AC units or filters. So, I made the business case for handrail, really quite simple. Provides collective, preventative and "passive" protection. Means you don't rely on people following rules or training to keep themselves safe when the risk outcome could be death. J
SP900308  
#14 Posted : 10 March 2016 13:45:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

jontyjohnston wrote:
Russ Just had the same issue with a newly constructed building. The contractor installed an anchor system which was completely inappropriate as it had to be used with a fixed 1.2 meter lanyard. When clipped on you could not reach the AC units or filters. So, I made the business case for handrail, really quite simple. Provides collective, preventative and "passive" protection. Means you don't rely on people following rules or training to keep themselves safe when the risk outcome could be death. J
Good to see CDM design risk management for end users considered and argued at the very end of the project..... I despair! Simon
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