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firesafety101  
#1 Posted : 24 March 2016 11:37:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I wonder what people think about a care company offering employment to someone who is required to attend four days training unpaid. Also a DRB check at the prospective new employee's own cost.
WatsonD  
#2 Posted : 24 March 2016 11:51:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

I think you'll find that this company are one of many in this sector that take this approach. For the record: this doesn't make it right - but it is far from an isolated occurance
10MARK  
#3 Posted : 24 March 2016 11:53:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
10MARK

It could be looked at as providing free training to enable a person to take up a role they would not otherwise be able to do . The DRB check ? I don't see why should a company pay for them
Graham  
#4 Posted : 24 March 2016 12:37:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham

The company pays because they need DRB checked staff. And the check is not transferable. If the check was mine that I could use anywhere then I can see an argument for me paying. But that's simply not the case. This is a money making scam. My daughter has three DRB checks, one for the school she works in and one for each of the gymnastics classes she teaches. That’s why I call it a scam, someone is making more money from this than should be the case. As for requiring training for unpaid work I think that’s necessary but employers who charge for this are borderline criminals in my view. They may not be breaking any specific laws that doesn’t make it right.
HSSnail  
#5 Posted : 24 March 2016 13:28:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Depends if they need a full DRB check or just the a basic disclosure you can get one of these yourself. If its just the basic disclosure then I think you can use it as often as you want - providing you supply it with 3 months of the check being made - not 100% sure of that so check it out if you need to. As for not being paid for training or even paying for it yourself its always a difficult question, but my current role wanted me to have NEBOSH diploma or equivalent (pre chartered days) which I did - I had paid for the course and exams myself - they did not offer to pay me back fort them - so is it any different to advertising a qualification as a pre-requisite for a job? If a need for training arises in a current role that requires training for you to do the job safely then I thinks that's a different argument.
WatsonD  
#6 Posted : 24 March 2016 13:33:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Not wanting to be pedantic but it is called a DBS check (which has replaced the old CRB). There is no such thing as a DRB check to my knowledge. Also, there is no reason why you would need to get different ones for each employer: https://www.gov.uk/dbs-update-service
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 24 March 2016 15:19:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Watson thank you for updating us on the DRB check. The reason why a new one is needed by a new employer is because they simply want a new check. The person already has one for a school but the new employment involves adults therefore a new check required. Or so they say. IMO four days training that may be essential for the role is a bit off. Four full days unable to do anything else is a lot of time to demand. The job offer has been refused because of the requirements above. Can a CRB be transferred into a DBS?
Invictus  
#8 Posted : 24 March 2016 15:45:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

This is what happens when you have no unions! My dauther claims her BRB back as tax relief as she works as a gymnastics coach, I have told her to claim an hourly rate for her time as tax relief as she has had to register as self employed as the company she works for will not employ anyone on the books. I am sure that at the end of the year even if employed you can claim tax relief on some of these you can on IOSH membership.
mssy  
#9 Posted : 24 March 2016 20:49:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Invictus is right, since the demise of unions, employers are pretty much free to return to this sort of Dickensian practice. However: If the training mentioned includes fire awareness training - and is based in England or Wales - then they are breaking the law The Fire Safety Order states that employees must receive fire training and that training must take place during working hours. Article 21(2)(e) refers I reminded a manager of a well known retail sport clothing shop of this law when their idiot manager tried to force my daughter from her sick bed under threat of being sacked, to attend unpaid staff training on a Saturday evening between 7 and 9pm. He excused my daughter but the training went ahead. Coincidentally, he received a surprise visit from a fire inspector the next week!
firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 25 March 2016 15:15:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Mssy that is a very interesting point but does the FSO also require work to be paid ?
mssy  
#11 Posted : 25 March 2016 17:10:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

My interpretation is that 'working hours' means within the employee's contracted working week (ie not after work) and paid, if the employee's normal working week is paid employment and not voluntary I'd be interested to seek other's views on my interpretation
toe  
#12 Posted : 25 March 2016 22:19:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

mssy wrote:
Coincidentally, he received a surprise visit from a fire inspector the next week!
mssy - how did that happen. I bet they found the fire doors obstructed by clothing stock as well. You may be right about the working hours - however in the care sector working hours is taken to be any hours because they often work all hours day/night, weekday and weekends.
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