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corrinaevans  
#1 Posted : 26 April 2016 07:53:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
corrinaevans

Would appreciate your opinions please. Trying to deal with an issue that I believe sort of fits under the Dangerous Occurrence category within RIDDOR but doesn't quite....An ex-HSE Inspector friend is unsure so I thought I would throw it open to my learned friends. Whilst a sprinkler system was being tested in a residential home, there was a major leak which brought down parts of the ceiling (not 5 tonnes worth...) and caused arcing of electrical wiring. The amount of ceiling brought down was enough to have parts of the building taped off and of course residents had to be temporarily re-homed due to lack of fire protection and damaged ceiling making some areas unusable, and I recognize that whilst we didn't have a fire there was potential there for one. The HSE is aware as someone contacted them and I have spoken to the Inspector concerned, all OK with action plan in place. Should I report under Dangerous Occurrence or not ? Thanks in advance Corrina
SBH  
#2 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:21:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

If it does not involve the following then no need to report, lifting equipment, pressure systems, overhead electric lines, electrical incidents causing explosion or fire, explosions, biological agents, radiation generators and radiography, breathing apparatus, diving operations, collapse of scaffolding, train collisions, wells and pipelines or pipeline works. SBH
WatsonD  
#3 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:33:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Is a sprinkler not classified as a pressure system then? pressure system” means— (a) a system comprising one or more pressure vessels of rigid construction, any associated pipework and protective devices; (b) the pipework with its protective devices to which a transportable pressure receptacle is, or is intended to be, connected; or (c) a pipeline and its protective devices, which contains or is liable to contain a relevant fluid, but does not include a transportable pressure receptacle; “protective devices” means devices designed to protect the pressure system against system failure and devices designed to give warning that system failure might occur, and include bursting discs; “relevant fluid” means— (a) steam; (b) any fluid or mixture of fluids which is at a pressure greater than 0.5 bar above atmospheric pressure, and which fluid or mixture of fluids is— (i) a gas, or (ii) a liquid which would have a vapour pressure greater than 0.5 bar above atmospheric pressure when in equilibrium with its vapour at either the actual temperature of the liquid or 17.5 degrees Celsius; or (c) a gas dissolved under pressure in a solvent contained in a porous substance at ambient temperature and which could be released from the solvent without the application of heat; I think you may need to report
peterL  
#4 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:49:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
peterL

Hi Watson, I may be incorrect, but where is the pressure vessel located within a mains fed sprinkler system? I would have thought it would be more likely reportable as a electrical incident disrupting the supply for 24hrs or more - may'be, but probably the incident doesn't meet the Riddor criteria in reality, Pete,
David Bannister  
#5 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:53:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Water in the sprinkler system is not a relevant fluid (b ii). A spurt of water is not life-threatening, nor is it Reportable, thankfully, else the RIDDOR reportline would be permanently overloaded by plumbers errors, sprinkler engineers faults and tales of sundry leaks.
achrn  
#6 Posted : 26 April 2016 10:41:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

WatsonD wrote:
“relevant fluid” means— (a) steam; (b) any fluid or mixture of fluids which is at a pressure greater than 0.5 bar above atmospheric pressure, and which fluid or mixture of fluids is— (i) a gas, or (ii) a liquid which would have a vapour pressure greater than 0.5 bar above atmospheric pressure when in equilibrium with its vapour at either the actual temperature of the liquid or 17.5 degrees Celsius; or (c) a gas dissolved under pressure in a solvent contained in a porous substance at ambient temperature and which could be released from the solvent without the application of heat;
Water below boiling point is none of those things.
WatsonD  
#7 Posted : 26 April 2016 10:43:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Thanks peterL. I framed my last post as a question as I though it would need further qualification from others. However, the OP doesn't state a mains fed system. Could it not be fed by a tank and pump? David Bannister - Where does this compare to a Plumbers leak? The OP states "... there was a major leak which brought down parts of the ceiling (not 5 tonnes worth...) and caused arcing of electrical wiring. The amount of ceiling brought down was enough to have parts of the building taped off and of course residents had to be temporarily re-homed..."
Binniem  
#8 Posted : 26 April 2016 11:16:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Binniem

WatsonD wrote:
Thanks peterL. I framed my last post as a question as I though it would need further qualification from others. However, the OP doesn't state a mains fed system. Could it not be fed by a tank and pump? David Bannister - Where does this compare to a Plumbers leak? The OP states "... there was a major leak which brought down parts of the ceiling (not 5 tonnes worth...) and caused arcing of electrical wiring. The amount of ceiling brought down was enough to have parts of the building taped off and of course residents had to be temporarily re-homed..."
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l122.pdf Page 9, sprinkler systems are not a pressure system under Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 as they do not contain a relevant fluid
WatsonD  
#9 Posted : 26 April 2016 11:24:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Binniem wrote:
WatsonD wrote:
Thanks peterL. I framed my last post as a question as I though it would need further qualification from others. However, the OP doesn't state a mains fed system. Could it not be fed by a tank and pump? David Bannister - Where does this compare to a Plumbers leak? The OP states "... there was a major leak which brought down parts of the ceiling (not 5 tonnes worth...) and caused arcing of electrical wiring. The amount of ceiling brought down was enough to have parts of the building taped off and of course residents had to be temporarily re-homed..."
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l122.pdf Page 9, sprinkler systems are not a pressure system under Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 as they do not contain a relevant fluid
Thank you. Not my field, as you can clearly see :0)
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