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Bazzer  
#1 Posted : 25 April 2016 15:54:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bazzer

I have a client who employs a housekeeper and gardener/handyman. The handyman had a minor accident with a backhoe attachment on his tractor, and because they are employers, the employer asked me to investigate the incident. which I have now done. They have now asked me what else they should be doing to ensure their employers are safe. Since they employ less than 5 employees, they in theory don't need to document everything, but I am suggesting risk assessments are undertaken and documented for all activities the couple do and substances they use. How far should I go with documentation (SSW's); all my other clients are businesses with more than 5 employers, but with this being a domestic environment, and not a business as such, don't want it to be bureaucratic.
bob youel  
#2 Posted : 25 April 2016 16:48:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

In my view you are correct in suggesting that RA's are undertaken and documented for all activities the couple do and substances they use etc. & again in my view this is a businees not a domestic situation as it just so happens that some of the work is undertaken in somebodies home As for how far U go depends on the chance the employer has of ending up in a court and as U know in a court the main thing that matters is documented proof & without that there is no defence - as for the 'less than 5 employees' business well the less said the better about that old fashioned idea noting that the tax, national insurance, pensions, insurance, accounts HR etc. want lots of paper even for 1 employee so why should H&S be any different best of luck
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 25 April 2016 19:06:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Bazzer wrote:
Since they employ less than 5 employees, they in theory don't need to document everything.......don't want it to be bureaucratic.
Not 'in theory', but in law. And will that bundle of paper improve or otherwise effect the safety, behaviour, competency, etc. Of these 2 employee ? I very much doubt that, so what's the point?
WatsonD  
#4 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:23:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

If they are a domestic worker in a private household aren't they exempt from HASWA?
chas  
#5 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:30:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

In terms of application of HASWA I believe that much depends on the terms of their contract and whether they have a contract 'of service' or contract 'for service'. Legal advice is needed.
Jimothy999  
#6 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:34:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jimothy999

WatsonD wrote:
If they are a domestic worker in a private household aren't they exempt from HASWA?
I believe they are; section 51 of HASWA. I assume this exemption applies to people directly employing domestic staff for their own homes but not to cleaning/gardening companies employing people to work on third party premises.
David Bannister  
#7 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:45:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Regardless of whether HASAWA applies, the workers are owed a common law duty of care by the householders. The supply and use of mechanical equipment, horticultural chemicals etc is inherently hazardous and can easily lead to harm. Whether that harm would be due to negligence will depend on a variety of factors, depending on the exact circumstances and what had been done to minimise risk.
Invictus  
#8 Posted : 26 April 2016 08:50:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Reading the OP the people want to do it and he is just asking what he sjould look for so as not to go to far. I would just look at the main things that could cause significant harm, i.e. equipment, chemicals etc. I wouldn't start looking at gardeners using a hoe, rake etc.
aud  
#9 Posted : 26 April 2016 10:20:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

If the 'employer' is an employer ONLY because they engage "private domestic servants" s51 excludes the employer form further HSWA duties. If they are an employer of others, in business, this exclusion does not count, nor if the workers do other (non-domestic) tasks. However, civil duty of care applies as ever. Proportional response would be to provide simple, understandable instructions for the use of powered equipment or tools, probably best googled, RoSPA may be a source, and make sure they are wearing / using decent footwear, gloves and eye protection if needed. Electrical and petrol powered kit needs specific user 'rules'.
WatsonD  
#10 Posted : 26 April 2016 10:21:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

The point here is that the OP can have the freedom to be able to create his own methods and strategies, to develop a SSOW. A quite rare opportunity to almost design H&S up from scratch. Not that he doesn't need to bother.
Bazzer  
#11 Posted : 26 April 2016 10:48:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bazzer

Section 51 seems to apply more to housekeeper type work, cleaning, washing etc. So does it apply to the handyman/gardener, who is using tractor, chain saws, brush cutters, backhoe attachments etc. which are much more much more hazardous than using a vacuum cleaner. Would electrical equipment like a vacuum cleaner, steam iron need testing etc.
WatsonD  
#12 Posted : 26 April 2016 11:07:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Bazzer wrote:
Section 51 seems to apply more to housekeeper type work, cleaning, washing etc. So does it apply to the handyman/gardener, who is using tractor, chain saws, brush cutters, backhoe attachments etc. which are much more much more hazardous than using a vacuum cleaner. Would electrical equipment like a vacuum cleaner, steam iron need testing etc.
I may get strung up for suggesting this: but if the mains board has RCD protection then this may mean that you have mitigated the risk enough(?)
aud  
#13 Posted : 26 April 2016 11:48:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

"51: Exclusion of application to domestic employment. Nothing in this Part shall apply in relation to a person by reason only that he employs another, or is himself employed, as a domestic servant in a private household." 'Domestic servant' is not defined. I am suggesting that a proportionate approach to applying practical safety standards to gardening (and other tasks) is all that is required in a business of less than 5, regardless of whether s51 applies in this case. The manufacturers instructions for any powered equipment will be a rich seam of information, usually untapped. Electrical testing? Really? Maybe if a landscaping business . . KISS x
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