Rank: Super forum user 
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Whilst reading some of the threads here on employees breaking the rules and how thier training, experience and in some cases cultural background and socioeconomic group has an effect on how they react in all sorts of cases. I got to thinking how does that affect how safety advisors and managers apply the 'rules' or risk management regimes in the workplace. I have processes for error assessments in emergency response personnel and I am now looking to apply the same...
So now doing the background research to design the process etc. ...any suggestions comments?
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Rank: Forum user
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Steve
Your post seems lonely.
Not sure I fully understand your question, but firstly a safety adviser is not in the same business of applying 'rules' as a manager would be, as they are not line managing workers. They may be in the business of developing, interpreting and discussing rules with said manager, but the two are different (in my world).
Are you talking HEART / LAAS and similar? Can't see the application in the situations arising more generally from managers (and even less so with safety advisers). Error assessment can realistically only be applied where there are clear YES/NO or GO/ NO GO procedures. Much of H&S management is much more flexible and dynamic than a control room situation.
Normal human stuff applies of course - perceptual sets and all that.
Can't live with it, can't live without it.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Steve
Is what you are asking normally refereed on here as behavioral safety. Others know much more on this subject than me, but my simplistic take on it is you find out why people do what they do and provide measures to change it if required. So it all depends on what rule or even type of rule it is that the people are breaking.
Many years ago I went to a network rail seminar and they described a situation where they had a building with a car park at a much higher level. They built some nice new steps with handrails etc down the side of the bank, but ended up with an injured employee. On review they found that the steps were in the wrong place as people would want to go the shortest route and so went down the grass bank.
They should have considered this beforehand, so they either had to move the steps, enforce the use, fence around car park making the correct route the only option or live with it.
What you do or can do is dependant on what exactly is not being done properly.
there is error prevention everywhere, guarding on the gears of a machine, no one in the right mind would put their hand into a machine gearbox, but if they are distracted they may inadvertently, therefore a guard is there to prevent that type of error.
Or have I got your question wrong?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I was just really starting a discussion on error assessment of safety advisors and managers. The basic HF stuff applies but I was looking to see if anyone knew of a study or would like to participate in one?
The emergency services is a complicated one as there are patient and clinical tributes to it.
I just am just putting the feelers out to see what others think. I did some examples years ago where I took the same safety rep material as the union instructor and taught a class then asked them a series of questions aimed at the positive and negative side (the big bad company doesn't love me to we are all working together the prevent workplace deaths and ill-health.
Bit of a ramble but I believe where and how you learnt safety has an influence on how you or we as safety professionals do our jobs... nes pa's?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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stevedm
If I have read your post correctly it appears you are asking what approach to H&S do safety people have given their previous background. Interesting concept which came about yesterday with a meeting of senior managers and TU h&s reps. I started off as a TU h&s rep which has helped me see both sides of the argument I believe. Therefore I probably tend to focus more on latent failures when investigating incidents. It's all too easy to spot the immediate failure which tends to be 'operator error'. I was also once a train driver for my sins, where operator error was a common and abused cause - Cullen Enquiry into the Ladbroke Grove disaster dispelled this myth.
Human Factors, Behavioural Safety and other related matters do have an influence on H&S. Just a the safety culture of an organisation can be very complex so can the causal factors in accidents and incidents. At the end of the day it's important to keep and open mind and consider all the facts before making any assumptions. Many of my investigation reports have included anecdotal evidence because sometimes the hard evidence is not available but intuition if you like gives rise to other influencing factors.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks for the time Ray but not quite what I was suggesting...interesting tho' as (with all due respect) I had guessed at your background.. ;)
What I am saying is that as with human factors for employees carrying out tasks, safety guys and gals can be influenced in their decisions based on their personality and background.
Being a stereotypical Scotsman...there are times when I appear to get extremely angry at the TV when I'm just passing a wee comment or two...I can't watch casualty any more for that reason...
There are people in this profession who are after a quick buck and they nearly always get caught out one way or the other, there are the crusaders who tie themselves to a mast and then don't realise the ship is sinking...there are the free thinkers who DON'T have an iphone and then there are the rather conservative advisor who are so afraid of being seen in the news (negatively) they refer to the legislation all the time without giving a business any real clue as to how to implement it effectively...
I have error assessments and protocols for emergency service staff to review and identify problems in training, post incident and as part of reflective practice...I'm looking for the same with regards to safety people...is there anyone who actually employs regular reflective practice for instance...?
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