Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Jamesputman  
#1 Posted : 02 May 2016 10:09:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jamesputman

Hi all, I have been checking approved guidance etc on the above, and would appreciate views/clarification concerning the following: Weekly flushing of infrequently used outlets: I note that HSG 274 states that outlets should be flushed for 'several minutes'. I have also seen policies published by universities etc which recommend either 3 mins or 5 mins. Is there a generally accepted timeframe for a normal risk premises (occasionally vacant flats used by general needs occupants)? Monthly temperature tests at outlets: Where outlets are on a mixer tap. How should hot and cold temperatures be recorded? Would it be by selecting the coldest setting for cold and hottest to measure the hot water outlet? Thanks
imwaldra  
#2 Posted : 03 May 2016 07:50:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
imwaldra

It's not an area where I have much practical experience, but I do know the theory pretty well! The purpose of flushing is to remove water that has been static. So the time should link to the flow rate & 'dead volume'. Once you have cleared the volume, continued flushing won't do anything more - there will be some biofilm on the surfaces and the best you can do is have water in the area that has been properly treated to minimise further growth. What you suggest for the mixer taps seems sensible. However, it would be better to choose an outlet in that area with no mixer, if one is available. You don't have to temperature check every out, just representative ones.
JCBushell  
#3 Posted : 03 May 2016 08:42:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JCBushell

We flush our little used outlets for around 5 minutes each week, just to make sure the static water has been fully removed and the 'dead leg' cannot cause a build-up of bacteria. We are a manufacturer of rubber compound, so our site is medium to high risk due to our cooling towers and water system throughout the factory. We flush hose reels, showers, sprinklers etc. so if applicable don't forget to sterilize the nozzles on a frequent basis. We have performed these duties for numerous years and haven't had a single trace of Legionella, so in relation to the flushing, I would say 5 minutes would be sufficient.
O'Donnell54548  
#4 Posted : 03 May 2016 10:51:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
O'Donnell54548

When testing at an outlet fitted with a mixer valve, you should use a flat probe to test the temperature at the pipe that leads into the mixer.
Xavier123  
#5 Posted : 04 May 2016 09:17:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Yup. With imwaldra on this. The purpose of flushing is to remove the stagnating water. There is arguably a degree of additional shear pressure created from flowing water to dislodge biofilm that is beginning to establish within pipework too so its worthwhile going a little past the minimum. 5 minutes sounds like overkill to me since, dependent on the length of the deadleg, you'll just be flushing water from the main circulatory system after a short while. But, hey, if it works, it works, and that's as good a test as any. ;)
Xavier123  
#6 Posted : 04 May 2016 10:07:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Oh, and forgot to say that removing stagnating water also should remove sediments and organic matter in the flushed area too. Not just about the water and bacterial load per se.
HSSnail  
#7 Posted : 04 May 2016 14:13:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

If you mean a thermostatic mixer - One that controls the water temperature automatically then I agree with O'Donnell. If you mean the kitchen stile mixers where you have a hot and cold tap and you decide how much you turn each on to get the correct water temperature out of a single spout then your suggestion for running cold alone then hot alone sounds OK.
DaveBridle  
#8 Posted : 05 May 2016 08:39:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveBridle

Thermostatic Mixing Valves (TMV) are separate from mixers taps and commonly used in hospitals etc. where there is a risk of scolding. These should be regularly maintained and tested to ensure that the temperature at the outlet is not above the limit to cause scolding (if I remember rightly 45 degrees C). The flushing of infrequently used outlets, as has been mentioned, is subject to being identified by the users of them. The length of time it takes to flush them through is as previously stated of approx. 5 mins at most. Additionally you must be aware of the potential exposure to the person doing the flushing as opening the tap full into the basin etc can cause droplets to become airborne. I would recommend a full water hygiene assessment be undertaken if the property is rented or falls into the category of care home etc. (it doesn't say what type of property it is in the original post). The assessment would look at all elements of the exposure and potential and would recommend actions to address potential exposure (a bit like a fire risk assessment works). Things to watch out for are the rubber flexi-hose fittings commonly used and also unused showers etc. We had a regular planned preventative maintenance (PPM) schedule that would address flushing and temperature readings. Temperature readings were taken at the furthest outlet from the heating source (i.e. boiler) and also at the return to the boiler and any adjustments made to ensure they were above the minimum limits. Additionally temperature readings were taken from any header tanks or loft storage tanks (also factor in the variance in temperature throughout the year). There is a lot to consider other than temperature reading and flushing.
Xavier123  
#9 Posted : 05 May 2016 10:03:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Forgot to pick up on the mixer tap issue. Yes, switch to full hot and then to full cold. BUT Bear in mind that these things can have issues and end up unrepresentative of the system. Hot water could be flowing to it at above 50 but the full hot (due to scaling or seizing of the valve) may only come out at low flow and reduced temp. So thus better outlets should be picked if possible. The other issue raised elsewhere...TMV's. TMV's are a pain in the bottom. They are used all over the place now and become common specification on new build public outlets. Risk of scalding is not just a temperature, its also got a time factor. 60 degree ain't gonna scald you unless you leave your limb or body in it. Your average Joe says 'ouch' but that is all. So its actually about ID of vulnerable people in relation to that. Pull the darn things out otherwise or don't install them. So few people do the scheduled maintenance of the valves because they can't get to them easily. Grrrrr. <insert rant here>
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.