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Invictus  
#1 Posted : 04 May 2016 09:10:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Jimothy999  
#2 Posted : 04 May 2016 10:11:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jimothy999

Richly deserved. Issues pointed out to them by their own fire risk assessment but ignored. Simple, low cost precautions not implemented and no maintenance of existing fire precautions. Quite simply an organisation that did not seem to care about an important topic.
mssy  
#3 Posted : 04 May 2016 19:43:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Its certainly a substantial fine, but why no incarceration?? > This is a home for vulnerable members of society > The RP failed to deliver the safety control as identified to him by a FRA > As a direct result of his failure to manage fire safety, a resident was not able to self evacuate or be assisted by staff and had to be rescued. Other than a serious injury fatality or similar stable door event, what circumstances could be more serious than this? I accept I do not know any more details than I have read on the link, but surely this degree of failures must have come close a custodial sentence? Its a shame the courts have been shown to be wanting again in this regard
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 04 May 2016 22:25:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Custodial sentence? "all pigs are created equal...some pigs are more equal than others" And where may the judge be retired too,?
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 04 May 2016 22:25:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Custodial sentence? "all pigs are created equal...some pigs are more equal than others" And where may the judge be retired too,?
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 05 May 2016 10:56:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

To be honest I think you could find many similar failings in care homes and other types of residential blocks. Now that fines are reflecting a more appropriate level perhaps enforcement and general inspections will follow.
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 05 May 2016 11:41:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Typical stable door reaction, after the event. This type pf prosecution should be actioned by the Fire Safety Officer during a routine inspection. Unfortunately they have to wait for the Horse to escape.
Invictus  
#8 Posted : 05 May 2016 12:04:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

firesafety101 wrote:
Typical stable door reaction, after the event. This type pf prosecution should be actioned by the Fire Safety Officer during a routine inspection. Unfortunately they have to wait for the Horse to escape.
The fire officer doesn't visit annually and it was highlighted on the risk assessment so they should of taken action themselves. I think it is quit significan move, along with Tesco etc.
firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 05 May 2016 14:46:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Invictus, I know the FSO is unable to visit annually but who says the FRA is an annual assessment anyway. Who decides who carries out the FRA and who decides on the date of the revue. Problem is the responsibility for fire inspections was taken away from the fire service and replaced by responsible person. This could be anyone who says they are competent. In my opinion all fire risk assessments with recommendations such as those on this FRA should be notified to the fire safety officer for him/her to review and REQUIRE the recommended actions to be taken. A similar problem exists where the responsibility for rescue from fires was also taken away from the FRS. Firefighters who attend fires do not have to enter to carry our rescues and people are dying as a result. As the above responsibilities no longer exist there are curts to fire service budgets because they have less responsibilities. Fire stations closing, appliances removed permanently and stations unmanned occasionally. Back to this thread though, similar prosecutions will happen but my fear is people who are put into these care homes will die.
JohnW  
#10 Posted : 05 May 2016 16:18:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

FS I agree that we seem to have a less safe environment today with regard to fire safety management and enforcement. Even a very competent fire risk assessment has not prevented the most significant findings because there was no effective follow up.
Quote:
Perhaps the most significant finding .... is that fire doors were found to be wedged open..... ... problem had already been identified in a fire risk assessment but the care home operator failed to implement the improvements...... .... the company failed to carry out a number of actions identified in a fire risk assessment..... ..... including installing electronic devices that would have allowed fire doors to be held open whilst enabling them to be quickly closed in an emergency.
'Installing electronic devices' to close doors ..... presumably that was just a recommendation and was not like an improvement notice. JohnW
mssy  
#11 Posted : 06 May 2016 19:19:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

My point in post 3 was custodial sentences are available, but rarely dished out unless injury or death has resulted from failings in fire safety management. IMHO if (and it is 'if' as I do not know the details) the fire service had to rescue a punter who could not escape on their own or with the assistance of staff - and if this is related to a failing in fire safety management (such as failing to act on the findings of a FRA) - then this is as serious as it gets short of blood being spilt. I would like to see custodial sentences (with a whopping fine) given for these type of near miss events, as surely we are all about preventing harm, not waiting until after harm has occurred
firesafety101  
#12 Posted : 07 May 2016 10:10:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Messy I see and and agree with what you say but that would still be stable door reaction. IMO the big issue is the FRS no longer have the capacity or the requirement to inspect such places therefore it is left/trusted to the fire risk assessor and the RP to assess, recommend (not require) and follow up.
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