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Russ1977  
#1 Posted : 21 June 2016 09:29:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

Hi all,

Got a situation whereby I have discovered that electrical risers on each floor of a premises (5 floors in total) do not have any fire stopping between them. So essentially if you are on the 5th floor and open the riser, you can look all the way down to ground level.

Each individual enclosure has a fire door but is that sufficient, my experience tells me there should be compartmentation between floors??

Please could someone enlighten me.

Cheers folks.
Centurion  
#2 Posted : 21 June 2016 10:05:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Centurion

Hi,
I just did a Google search on Fire Stopping in Risers and there were several items that you may be interested in.
Cheers
Andy
PIKEMAN  
#3 Posted : 21 June 2016 10:08:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

Is there an existing FRA? If so, what does it say. If it is a modern building, is there any design documentation? This may have been considered already.
Alfasev  
#4 Posted : 21 June 2016 10:17:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

I think you need a fire engineer to answer this however if the building is new it should comply with building regulations and this should have been checked by building control, who will keep records. I believe it is possible to protect the risers to allow enough time for the building to be evacuated and for the emergency services to attend. They are not that different to lift shafts or stair wells.

If a fire starts on the ground floor it will take the same amount of time to penetrate the 1st floor as the riser. The issue is once it has penetrated the riser the fire can penetrate all the other floors at the same time as the fire penetrates from the 1st to 2nd floor. I am no fire engineer but the scenarios can get quite complex for example they may have increased the fire protection to the riser as you go up the floors.

If it is an old building it may have been the best solution. The other possibility is they have missed them out! This occurred on a massive design and build hospital which cost millions to sort out.
Safety Smurf  
#5 Posted : 21 June 2016 10:48:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Lot's of variables that dictate whether it would or wouldn't have fire stopping between floors in the risers. do the floors having floating floors for power and data distribution? if they do, have a look where the riser passes the floor and check that it's been fire stopped there.

As has already been mentioned. It often gets missed and is costly to rectify.
bleve  
#6 Posted : 21 June 2016 11:56:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

Interesting in the context of the recent thread concerning FRA and Attic spaces
Invictus  
#7 Posted : 22 June 2016 08:43:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Russ,

from 9999

38.2.2 Electrical risers.]

'The size of the electrical risers should be large enough only to accommodate the electrical services, and/or any working space needed to install/maintain the equipment.

Electrical risers within any protected stairway should be separated therefrom by 30 min fire-resisting construction and access doors, which should be kept locked shut and be openable only by the management responsible for the building.

Electrical risers where installed eleswhere than in a stairway should be enclosed with fire resisting construction of a standard equivalent to the elements of the structure of the building and the doors thereto should be capable of being locked shut. However, where each floor is continued into the riser shaft so that each floor is separated from each other, the riser need not be enclosed with fire resisting construction.'

Conclusion the type your talking about should be fire-resisting construction.

Hope this helps. It helps me typing it out as I will now remember it.

Invictus  
#8 Posted : 22 June 2016 08:48:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Should of added also try the Building Regulations part B section 10 Protection of openings and fire stopping.
hopeful  
#9 Posted : 22 June 2016 09:56:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hopeful

Had a similar discussion and as long as fire doors, kept locked and rest of construction was fire resistant then it was OK but would recommend. I would check on the plans if you have them for a guide as to whether the fire strategy required them
Safety Smurf  
#10 Posted : 22 June 2016 12:05:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

given a likely fire scenario, if you can get everybody out in time then great. But consider also what the impact would be to the business were a fire spread between floors. Would you come in in the morning to find a floor or two that couldn't be used or the entire building?
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