Forklift Trucks and LOLER Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic » Normal Threaded

Previous Topic Next Topic

jon joe		#1 Posted : 17 July 2016 14:20:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		If the FLT that are being used on Site are on long term hire. Who is responsible to ensure they are inspected every 6 months under LOLER? The Company who provide the FLT or the Company renting them?
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

RayRapp		#2 Posted : 17 July 2016 20:15:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Common sense tells me it's the supplier. Don't forget that whilst FLT's come under LOLER for the hiring company, for the end user PUWER will also apply. So there is an onus on the hirer to ensure they are fit for purpose.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Roundtuit		#3 Posted : 17 July 2016 21:45:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Whilst common sense would place this on the supplier the reality lies in the contractual arrangement. As this is a long term rental it is impracticable for the providers agent to attend multiple sites. In these instances we have normally had our insurers inspector cover long term rentals as part of the whole site inspection. Or you could send the FLT back to the renter when their inspection falls due - pretty sure you will identify the lower cost / least business disruptive option when you start to think about the implications of trying to save a few quid. And the biggest advantage is you have the records immediately available in the event of...
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Roundtuit		#4 Posted : 17 July 2016 21:45:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Whilst common sense would place this on the supplier the reality lies in the contractual arrangement. As this is a long term rental it is impracticable for the providers agent to attend multiple sites. In these instances we have normally had our insurers inspector cover long term rentals as part of the whole site inspection. Or you could send the FLT back to the renter when their inspection falls due - pretty sure you will identify the lower cost / least business disruptive option when you start to think about the implications of trying to save a few quid. And the biggest advantage is you have the records immediately available in the event of...
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

HSSnail		#5 Posted : 18 July 2016 08:46:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		I would say its the user company's responsibility to make sure they are checked - what would you do if the inspector called or worse still an accident occurs! However who gets the inspection carried out and pays any charge will be down to contractual details.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Plant trainer		#6 Posted : 18 July 2016 08:53:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		L117 gives all the information you require, paragraph 170 tells you that it is up to the hirer and hiring company to agree a who will carry out the inspections, basically it comes down what was agreed in the hire contract. I assume as you state 6 monthly it is likely that you are using them for lifting people. I would strongly recommend (if you haven't already) downloading a copy of L117 from HSE website.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Invictus		#7 Posted : 18 July 2016 08:55:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		If it is not part of contractual agreement it is the supplier, it is thier equipment and for them to ensure that it is inspected.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

HSSnail		#8 Posted : 18 July 2016 10:40:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Invictus wrote: If it is not part of contractual agreement it is the supplier, it is thier equipment and for them to ensure that it is inspected. So Invictus you would be quit happy to have equipment on your site that you had no idea if it had been inspected? And you don't need to answer that as I know you would not. This is why I said its the users duty to ENSURE the inspection has been undertaken, if it has not stop using it until its done. Jon joe did not ask wh9o should do the inspection!
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

boblewis		#9 Posted : 18 July 2016 10:54:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Moral Always be aware of the Ts & Cs of any contraxt
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Invictus		#10 Posted : 18 July 2016 12:48:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		jon joe wrote: If the FLT that are being used on Site are on long term hire. Who is responsible to ensure they are inspected every 6 months under LOLER? The Company who provide the FLT or the Company renting them? They only need 12 monthly unless you are using them for lifting people
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Invictus		#11 Posted : 18 July 2016 12:53:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Brian Hagyard wrote: Invictus wrote: If it is not part of contractual agreement it is the supplier, it is thier equipment and for them to ensure that it is inspected. So Invictus you would be quit happy to have equipment on your site that you had no idea if it had been inspected? And you don't need to answer that as I know you would not. This is why I said its the users duty to ENSURE the inspection has been undertaken, if it has not stop using it until its done. Jon joe did not ask wh9o should do the inspection! He did, that was the question.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

HSSnail		#12 Posted : 18 July 2016 14:09:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Lets be clear here ENSURE that something is done is very different to actually doing it. My view is if its your site its your job to ENSURE all safety measures are taken. If you hire FLT's etc you ENSURE the inspections are carried out. Now that may be that you simply request copy's of the inspection report from the hire company - but you don't just trust the hire company to do it!
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Mr Insurance		#13 Posted : 18 July 2016 17:33:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		The preamble to LOLER indicates the regulations apply to every EMPLOYER who provides equipment for use by an employee. Further, Paragraph 9(3)(a) indicates that (paraphrased) every EMPLOYER shall ensure that lifting equipment....is thoroughly examined. In the event of an accident, I would be astounded if the enforcing authority didn't go for the employer irrespective of whether or not they own or hire the equipment. Whilst the employer is responsible for ensuring it is thoroughly examined at appropriate intervals, whether they arrange themselves or instruct the hire company to do it, they must ensure it is done.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Invictus		#14 Posted : 19 July 2016 08:22:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Brian Hagyard wrote: Lets be clear here ENSURE that something is done is very different to actually doing it. My view is if its your site its your job to ENSURE all safety measures are taken. If you hire FLT's etc you ENSURE the inspections are carried out. Now that may be that you simply request copy's of the inspection report from the hire company - but you don't just trust the hire company to do it! Are you saying that if the hire company gives you a certificate that you would still get it completed independantly? Your insurance company might actually state that they want to do it I have known this to happen, but would you then get someone else to check that they have completed it correctly, where would you stop if you didn't truct that it was being completed correctly in the first place. I know there has been a recent case were the MEWP the company was using was not fit for purpose but this was because he owned it and decided not to have the inspections completed.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

HSSnail		#15 Posted : 19 July 2016 08:32:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Invictus wrote: Brian Hagyard wrote: Lets be clear here ENSURE that something is done is very different to actually doing it. My view is if its your site its your job to ENSURE all safety measures are taken. If you hire FLT's etc you ENSURE the inspections are carried out. Now that may be that you simply request copy's of the inspection report from the hire company - but you don't just trust the hire company to do it! Are you saying that if the hire company gives you a certificate that you would still get it completed independantly? Your insurance company might actually state that they want to do it I have known this to happen, but would you then get someone else to check that they have completed it correctly, where would you stop if you didn't truct that it was being completed correctly in the first place. I know there has been a recent case were the MEWP the company was using was not fit for purpose but this was because he owned it and decided not to have the inspections completed. No Invictus that is not what i'm saying - if the hire company had it inspected that would be fine by me - but I would ensure that they got it inspected not just trust it was being done!
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Invictus		#16 Posted : 19 July 2016 08:35:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Brian Hagyard wrote: Invictus wrote: Brian Hagyard wrote: Lets be clear here ENSURE that something is done is very different to actually doing it. My view is if its your site its your job to ENSURE all safety measures are taken. If you hire FLT's etc you ENSURE the inspections are carried out. Now that may be that you simply request copy's of the inspection report from the hire company - but you don't just trust the hire company to do it! Are you saying that if the hire company gives you a certificate that you would still get it completed independantly? Your insurance company might actually state that they want to do it I have known this to happen, but would you then get someone else to check that they have completed it correctly, where would you stop if you didn't truct that it was being completed correctly in the first place. I know there has been a recent case were the MEWP the company was using was not fit for purpose but this was because he owned it and decided not to have the inspections completed. No Invictus that is not what i'm saying - if the hire company had it inspected that would be fine by me - but I would ensure that they got it inspected not just trust it was being done! Got you! yes I woul I would want a copy of the current LOLER certification of inspection.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

HSSnail		#17 Posted : 19 July 2016 09:00:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Invictus wrote: Brian Hagyard wrote: Invictus wrote: Brian Hagyard wrote: Lets be clear here ENSURE that something is done is very different to actually doing it. My view is if its your site its your job to ENSURE all safety measures are taken. If you hire FLT's etc you ENSURE the inspections are carried out. Now that may be that you simply request copy's of the inspection report from the hire company - but you don't just trust the hire company to do it! Are you saying that if the hire company gives you a certificate that you would still get it completed independantly? Your insurance company might actually state that they want to do it I have known this to happen, but would you then get someone else to check that they have completed it correctly, where would you stop if you didn't truct that it was being completed correctly in the first place. I know there has been a recent case were the MEWP the company was using was not fit for purpose but this was because he owned it and decided not to have the inspections completed. No Invictus that is not what i'm saying - if the hire company had it inspected that would be fine by me - but I would ensure that they got it inspected not just trust it was being done! Got you! yes I woul I would want a copy of the current LOLER certification of inspection. Thank goodness for that - I thought it was unusual for you and I to be so far apart on an issue - perhaps I did not explain my position very well.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

wjp62		#18 Posted : 19 July 2016 15:03:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Guidance to Reg 3 of LOLER states Long-term hire of a forklift truck Users have a duty to ensure that the truck is safe for their employees to use and that it is thoroughly examined at appropriate intervals. Such thorough examinations should be arranged by the user or hire company through agreement. These thorough examinations do not remove the need for the user to ensure that necessary inspections and pre-use checks are carried out and defects reported and remedied as necessary. Further guidance on the maintenance and inspection of lift trucks is given in Rider-operated lift trucks: Operator training and safe use.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Invictus		#19 Posted : 19 July 2016 15:21:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		wjp62 wrote: Guidance to Reg 3 of LOLER states Long-term hire of a forklift truck Users have a duty to ensure that the truck is safe for their employees to use and that it is thoroughly examined at appropriate intervals. Such thorough examinations should be arranged by the user or hire company through agreement. These thorough examinations do not remove the need for the user to ensure that necessary inspections and pre-use checks are carried out and defects reported and remedied as necessary. Further guidance on the maintenance and inspection of lift trucks is given in Rider-operated lift trucks: Operator training and safe use. Yep that's what we said!.
User Profile View All Posts by User View Thanks

Users browsing this topic

Guest