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Kloppite  
#1 Posted : 25 August 2016 12:20:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kloppite

Hi All We are a small Building Maintenance company employing 16 operatives in total. One of these operatives is self employed. Should he be supplying us RaMs and Insurance cover for all the work he undertakes for us or can he fall under our umbrella using our insurance and RaMs ? Thanks in advance.
SP900308  
#2 Posted : 25 August 2016 12:23:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

Kloppite, Although not answering your question at this stage, does he work exclusively for your company or are you amongst other clients he works for? Simon
Clark34486  
#3 Posted : 25 August 2016 12:30:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clark34486

Quite straight forward this.... People will quote elements regarding 'the self employed'.......'less than five employees' yadda yadda yadda. BUT who are your clients? does he work under your supervision or independently contracted for stand alone works? If he is working for you these are your clients, your bread and butter therefore would you want to jeopardise the business you've built? If he is working as a part of your PAYE team have him included within the RAMS schedule, perhaps have him sign the RAMS, if he's independent assist him to produce the RAMS and submit them to the client, that way you're happy that he SHOULD be working in accordance with them Self employed? yes he should have his own insurance
Mr Insurance  
#4 Posted : 25 August 2016 13:27:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr Insurance

Legal Liability is never a "one size fits all" concept, and in the event of an incident, responsibility and therefore liability will be ascertained dependant on the exact circumstances. Even if the self-employed contractor is ultimately held to be the responsibility of the contractor, he may need to defend any claim before liability is established. Erring on the side of caution, any self employed person should arrange their own insurance even if it may not be needed. By the way, this isn't a pitch to get people to buy insurance, but if the brown stuff hits the fan, its better to have an insurer looking after you than going it alone.
Kloppite  
#5 Posted : 25 August 2016 14:08:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kloppite

SP900308 wrote:
Kloppite, Although not answering your question at this stage, does he work exclusively for your company or are you amongst other clients he works for? Simon
Yes , He works exclusively for our company along side our PAYE operatives.
Kloppite  
#6 Posted : 25 August 2016 14:19:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kloppite

Clark34486 wrote:
Quite straight forward this.... People will quote elements regarding 'the self employed'.......'less than five employees' yadda yadda yadda. BUT who are your clients? does he work under your supervision or independently contracted for stand alone works? If he is working for you these are your clients, your bread and butter therefore would you want to jeopardise the business you've built? If he is working as a part of your PAYE team have him included within the RAMS schedule, perhaps have him sign the RAMS, if he's independent assist him to produce the RAMS and submit them to the client, that way you're happy that he SHOULD be working in accordance with them Self employed? yes he should have his own insurance
This guy has his own insurance but works as one of our maintenance team along side other PAYE operatives and under supervision. He receives copies of our RaMs and reads and signs as do all our operatives.
SP900308  
#7 Posted : 25 August 2016 15:31:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

Kloppite wrote:
SP900308 wrote:
Kloppite, Although not answering your question at this stage, does he work exclusively for your company or are you amongst other clients he works for? Simon
Yes , He works exclusively for our company along side our PAYE operatives.
I posed the question as I had an understanding that if he worked exclusively for one employer for a sustained period of time (e.g. 7+ months), he could be deemed an employee in law? Someone else may be able to confirm/reject this?
gramsay  
#8 Posted : 25 August 2016 16:00:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay

Hi Kloppite, Our maintenance people have one or two sole traders who they use for particular jobs. We developed a draft approval system for them a couple of months ago and I'll happily send you a copy of what we ask them to do if you PM me your email address. Basically we bring them in in advance, supply them with our RAMS relevant to the work they do and then ask them to return once they have reviewed them. They then have a face to face meeting with a Supervisor who discusses the scope of work and confirms with them that they understand what we require. The self-employed worker signs off the relevant RAMS, and both parties sign a declaration. We do not sign off that someone is competent, but we do ask the self employed worker to confirm that he considers himself competent to carry out the work discussed, as well as a few other things. We accept that these people are equivalent to our employees under H&S law.
RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 25 August 2016 17:01:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

SP900308 wrote:
Kloppite wrote:
SP900308 wrote:
Kloppite, Although not answering your question at this stage, does he work exclusively for your company or are you amongst other clients he works for? Simon
Yes , He works exclusively for our company along side our PAYE operatives.
I posed the question as I had an understanding that if he worked exclusively for one employer for a sustained period of time (e.g. 7+ months), he could be deemed an employee in law? Someone else may be able to confirm/reject this?
The status of employment will depend on a number of factors and not just the length of time someone is engaged with the company - the master/servant relationship is the main one from a h&s perspective. I think Gramsay has it about right, treating the operative as an employee will cover most bases. As for insurance, it is an accepted principle that those with the 'biggest pocket' tend to get receive the claim.
wjp62  
#10 Posted : 25 August 2016 17:09:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wjp62

It's always good to check with your insurers. as they may not pay out even if you consider him covered.
Kloppite  
#11 Posted : 26 August 2016 08:12:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kloppite

Thanks for all the input Folks. Have now decided on our stance on this matter .
SP900308  
#12 Posted : 26 August 2016 08:58:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

wjp62 wrote:
It's always good to check with your insurers. as they may not pay out even if you consider him covered.
Is sound advice! Ray, I also appreciate the status of employment. Some Employers will take self-employed under their wing and provide all PPE, training, RAMS etc. Some Employers do the exact opposite and insist they stand alone incl. mandatory SSIP membership / review. Each to their own.
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