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hserc  
#1 Posted : 01 September 2016 08:44:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hserc

Hello all here. We have just completely re-organised our offices into one of these "new-fangled" new-age workspaces with workstation areas, break out areas, quiet areas, cuddly toys etc. (I lied about the cuddly toys.) Anyway, in the new scheme of things very few people get a fixed (i.e their own) workstation. All of the fixed workstations are exactly the same, with exactly the same equipment provided. All get a widescreen LCD Monitor, docking station, keyboard and mouse, all desks are the same (and adequate) size, all get proper DSE appropriate seating (and all are the same). In all respects, If I assess one of the workstations, even allowing for minor differences in lighting and position in the office (windows etc.) then a simple cut and paste would do the remainder (300 odd). Question: If I did an assessment for one representative workstation and said all the rest were demonstrably the same, I am assuming this would be sensible health and safety and meet the requirements as stated in the regs? I am - of course - obliged to look at the exceptions. In this case it would mainly be the people. So - people who may need additional equipment (document holders, foot stools etc.) People who may need glasses, and so on. Question: Do you think it will be enough, to ensure all of the workstations are assessed and are generally suitable, but then instruct users to contact their line manager for a specific assessment where there are issues (and provide guidance as to what issues may require a separate assessment)? I suppose the overarching question for this situation, and many other offices similarly laid out (call centers etc.), is that is it necessary to have 300 assessments for 300 workstations, or (for example), 51 assessments, where 1 assessment applies to all 300 of the workstations and there are 50 specific assessments for individual users with different requirements? Many thanks in advance.
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 01 September 2016 09:15:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I think you have the DSE regs wrong. The aim of the regs is to look at how an individual interacts with the workstation, so there is no such thing as ‘DSE complaint’ workstation. People come in all different shapes and sizes ( long body short legs, long legs and arms etc) often they are not even aware their differences until someone points them out. They just assume that they’re ‘normal’. People also have different job requirements. Some just require a place to touch down to catch with their email, others will spend all day seated, writing up reports or entering data etc. A work area such as you have described needs to have the maximum amount of flexibility built into it ie not only fully adjustable chairs but high adjustable desks, different sizes of desk, chairs with different styles of back support etc. The geniuses who create these areas are often obsessed with making them look “fun but corporate” with as much standardisation as possible. I still remember being criticised for daring to supply a chair of the wrong colour in recently done out office. As often in the case in “elf and safety” you seem to have been presented with a fait accomplis –this is what we have decided upon and you are going to have to apply the Health and Safety gloss onto it to make it compliant.
JohnW  
#3 Posted : 01 September 2016 09:34:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

hserc, I have to agree with Kurdziel. I haven't had to deal with 300 workstations, so I do sympathise. You mention 'All of the fixed workstations are exactly the same' then you say 'very few people get a fixed (i.e their own) workstation'. That's confusing (are there any un-fixed??) but I suppose you mean all are the same and users just use whatever workstation they wish. As Kurdziel says not all people are the same. I've had to advise and make special arrangements for persons with medical conditions which have likely been worsened by the workstation they worked at for 10+ years. In all cases the ladies were either very short or very tall and had neck/shoulder problems. For the very tall lady we took her out to find/choose a new chair with a high back. And we had to put two Argos catalogues under her monitor!! So your DSE assessments MUST be on the PERSONS - you need to know if any of your employees have a history of upper limb pain/disorders and make a record of this. Are they taking medication etc. - if you ignore this personal assessment then the employees will suffer and so will the company. Also, even if your workstations are all identical, their environment may not be. I've recently had to make some re-arrangements at a client because their ceiling is only 2.5m high and they have ceiling air-con units which were blowing unbearable cold air on some office staff, so there was some re-arrangement of their office floor and some air-cons just had to be switched off. Anyway that's just a couple of examples to show that cut'n'paste DSE assessments are not an option. JohnW
WatsonD  
#4 Posted : 01 September 2016 09:35:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

As A Kurdziel says, DSE is about the user interaction with the workstation. You may find that some of these workers will not be classed as DSE users. Familiarise yourself with the regs, otherwise I'm not sure you could class yourself as competent to assess. However, my suggestion is that you look at an online assessment for the number of staff you have. They can undertake a short training video and complete the assessment online. You will be able to review those that have 'action required' easily. There are many providers out there and quality various so ask for free trials to find the best for you before committing.
alistair  
#5 Posted : 01 September 2016 09:43:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
alistair

hserc I think your approach is the way I would go. It would seem sensible and efficient to me if you were to issue guidance to all staff on the optimum sitting / keying positions, etc (the HSE guidance leaflet has all of this info), along with guidance on how to adjust the chair. Staff could then be instructed to contact their line manager if they cannot achieve an acceptable workstation arrangement that suits them. This may significantly reduce the number of individual assessments that will have to be carried out. You can then allocate more of your precious time to higher risk areas.
hserc  
#6 Posted : 01 September 2016 10:13:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hserc

Fait-accompli? Yes, that's the word I was looking for :-) I agree with all of the comments and that's where I was heading with my thinking. Some basic explanation first: all of the workstations are the same, but its not intended that a user will have a set DSE Workstation. None of the desks are designated to an individual - it's just either first come, first served, OR as the management would like, people would naturally go into ad-hoc groups depending upon what they are doing. So they may group into a functional group (marketing) or a marketing team may sit with the Legal Team for a couple of days whilst working on a project, etc. I'm sure you get the picture. I agree with points about workstations and people being equally relevant. But again, in the real world, if we assume something like 80% perhaps of the users (taking ergonomical aspects into account) will find that all of the workstations fit their needs. So in this respect, is it not logical to deal with the exceptions? As an example I'm sure you do not need but to illustrate the point: If I know that at these workstations, I need my VDU spectacles and my seat or desk raising to a certain height - then that applies to any of the other 299 workstations I may choose to sit at. Also - to be fair - the HSE's own guidance note and checklist - CK1.PDF - is only assessing (in the main) the workstation, not the user. So if I use it to assess one of my workstations and it meets the requirements of a workstation, all others therefore must meet the criteria as they are all identical and already positioned in suitable places. The checklist is specifically, in my view and indeed the HSE's, for workstations, not people. "Remember, the checklist only covers the workstation and working environment." Their words. As I said earlier, I still have to deal with people and their particular requirements. but for the vast majority of people, each workstation will be just as suitable as any other. Comments, discuss...
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 01 September 2016 11:18:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Cutting to the chase...have you considered providing individual DSE assessments for end-users? As mentioned previously, it's about people and their interaction with their work environment - not a generic approach which you seem to be suggesting. 'Hotdesking' will require assessing individual needs and ensuring some designated desks are provided where the individual needs special equipment.
alistair  
#8 Posted : 01 September 2016 11:36:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
alistair

I can't believe that someone indicated that ".....you may not be competent to assess.....!! I an IOSH member is not able to carry out a DSE assessment it would be astonishing.
Invictus  
#9 Posted : 01 September 2016 11:45:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

quote=alistair]I can't believe that someone indicated that ".....you may not be competent to assess.....!! I an IOSH member is not able to carry out a DSE assessment it would be astonishing.
That is meant as tongue in cheek isn't? Anyway, ensuring that people are seated correctly in a hot desking situation is farcical, they move and use other desks and seats that is why it is hot desking that is why the regs. today have no place in some circumstances, hot desking being one.
hserc  
#10 Posted : 01 September 2016 11:48:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hserc

Thanks for the reply. I don't think the term "Hot Desking" applies. As the implication is that it is many people using a single or few desks. In reality, there are many people using many identical desks and - in fact most people are likely to use the same desk quite frequently and if even if they did not, the desk and equipment provided at any another desk is the same anyway. However, terminology aside - I agree entirely. Probably 95% of the workforce will need no particular adjustments, just information and guidance. But does this mean I have to do 300 assessments just to find out what I already knew? If we are to perform "sensible health and safety" and risk-based and proportional measures, then surely it is more effective to deal with the exceptions to the rule? I.e. those persons who we know, or who can identify themselves (with appropriate information and guidance) as needing some other adjustments?
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 01 September 2016 12:19:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I looked after 600 odd staff (not all of whom were based at my offices but all of whom were supplied by DSE by the employer). Contrary to what management expected me to do, I did not check each one of them individually. There was a two stage process. Each person was issued with guidance etc and asked to complete a self-assessment. These were reviewed and any which looked wrong (I did not just rely on the user complaining of symptoms; anyone, for example who said that they spent 97% of their time working on DSE and never took a break all day, would get a visit) About 100 or so of the staff were on the books as it were ie being managed from the DSE point of view at one time. A few chronic cases were managed for years. I never assumed that a particular work station was right for everyone just ok for some
hserc  
#12 Posted : 01 September 2016 13:01:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hserc

That's probably closest to what I am thinking, and my management team to be fair. (Post by A.Kurdziel) HSE Guidance also seems to support this, saying that an assessment should be completed whenever a new workstation is set up, or when a substantial change is made to a workstation, or when there is a reason to suspect that they may no longer be valid (i.e. complaints of pain or discomfort.) It also goes on to say about sharing and hot desking, that it may be useful to provide a checklist at each workstation telling users what to assess. Forget about the terminlogy as I till don't regard this as hot desking, more like flexible working arrangements (as there are easily enough desks), this seems like an entirely pragmatic approach.
jodieclark1510  
#13 Posted : 01 September 2016 13:03:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

I used a dse package for our office of 300 people which everyone undertook which came up in traffic light colours if there was an issue to address- I could then provide advice or request equipment through the facilities team to suit that individual's needs. Those with chronic conditions were assessed slightly differently, as were those who were pregnant to make sure we adapted in good time so we added in regular meetings instead of keep sending out the same assessment. This way I could concentrate my time on those requiring a bit more attention as soon as the assessment was submitted.
hserc  
#14 Posted : 01 September 2016 13:05:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hserc

That's pretty much my thinking. Deal with the significance, not the trivia.
JohnW  
#15 Posted : 01 September 2016 13:26:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Yes, find the significant, the employees who need a bit of help. Issuing a Self-Assessment form or a useful software can be the starting point. This does rely on honesty, understanding the questions, knowing if they have MSD symptoms etc Those employees who use DSE for less than say 2 hours a day you could likely exclude as 'users'. As I mentioned earlier the very short and the very tall, who might be uncomfortable using the 'standard' set up that you have, may be vulnerable, and may need specific workstation. Also those who are long-sighted may need eyewear specific to mid-distance focussing required for screen work. There are voucher schemes available for employer to provide eye-tests and contribution to specific eyewear. And pregnant ladies may find the standard set-up uncomfortable later, and of course they should be given workstations with close access to rest facilities, and extra breaks etc
nic168  
#16 Posted : 07 September 2016 12:42:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
nic168

hserc, our organisation embraced " hot desking" some years ago with out really thinking through the Human element. There was and still is a lot of resistance to this. A desk booking system has helped. We found that ensuring that users understood what DSE assessments were for and the benefits of "proper Use" really was the key. With a good training /self assessment package you will enable them to self assess and hopefully come to you/LM with any concerns. As a bonus you may have given them some knowledge to take into their private life when using IT at home. We did find that there will be some people who need to be allocated a fixed workstation, either due to very specific requirements for desks or chairs or because they found that style of working very stressful, I think there is another strand here about working with their back to a walk way?
Sandan  
#17 Posted : 08 September 2016 12:02:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sandan

Where we work we have a similar situation but on a much larger scale; most of the desks are not 'fixed' for a specific user but all have the same ICT on the desks. The individual, with their manager and a DSE assessor, goes through a DSE assessment to see if anything needs to be changed. I, for instance, have a specialist chair (for my back) and a trackball mouse. These I move around the office to the desk I have booked for the day. Oh yes, it does mean that everyone has to have a DSE assessment; even at a 'fixed' desk, why would you not?
sadlass  
#18 Posted : 08 September 2016 12:28:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sadlass

Nidan wrote:
Where we work ... The individual, with their manager and a DSE assessor, goes through a DSE assessment to see if anything needs to be changed. Oh yes, it does mean that everyone has to have a DSE assessment; even at a 'fixed' desk, why would you not?
Maybe on a cost / benefit basis? 3 people to discuss each worker? Really? For a big govt dept with 500 office workers that would be (at least) one hour at average salary adding up to £20k at least, assuming quick and efficient (and on average wage!). And that is BEFORE any other action - just the 'discussion'. To protect how many from what?
RayRapp  
#19 Posted : 08 September 2016 12:33:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

sadlass wrote:
Nidan wrote:
Where we work ... The individual, with their manager and a DSE assessor, goes through a DSE assessment to see if anything needs to be changed. Oh yes, it does mean that everyone has to have a DSE assessment; even at a 'fixed' desk, why would you not?
Maybe on a cost / benefit basis? 3 people to discuss each worker? Really? For a big govt dept with 500 office workers that would be (at least) one hour at average salary adding up to £20k at least, assuming quick and efficient (and on average wage!). And that is BEFORE any other action - just the 'discussion'. To protect how many from what?
You have to understand public and local goverment ethos. Everyone MUST complete their DSE assessment...meanwhile, the real risks go completely unnoticed.
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