Rank: Forum user 
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Hello All,
After discovering an instance of agency construction (shop fit) operatives working very long hours overnight, on consecutive days I'm trying to put together a policy / guidance document containing broad sensible limits. This will cover our own employees who have opted out of the Working Time Directive and agency staff.
I appreciate that this is bit like "How long is a piece of string" given the many differing situations and tasks this is likely to have to cover but wondered if anyone else has done this and what levels they decided upon.
Our employed Site Managers regularly work 12 hours shifts and its not unheard of for them to work well over this when the pressure is on at the end of a job.
Thanks for any feedback
Andy
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Fiesta, if it was me then I would look at the job roles and consult with those working in these areas; find out a bit more detail; look at the risks, then suggest suitable breaks, etc. There are lots of studies out there which all seem to conclude that longer hours does not equal better productivity, in fact the opposite is true. Here is one example: http://www.economist.com...ge/2014/12/working-hours
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Rank: Super forum user
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I regurlarly work with people who do a 12 or 14 hour shift towards the end of a contract. One other thing to think about is the driving time on top of their work hours. It's not unusual for some to drive for 3 hours after a 12 or 14 hour shift. I believe that's an accident waiting to happen, in my opinion.
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Rank: Super forum user
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12 and 14 hour shifts at the end of a job!! The construction industry has gone soft - I have often seen 72 hours straight pre handover.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I agree with Bob - sure things should be adequately managed but reasonably practicable and as much real evidence should be the tools used to help manage the issue - additionally people need as much £ as possible especially agency staff as they do not know where their next pay packet is coming from - facilitate a rigorous risk assessment plus report and then give it to HR etc. to manage not H&S
The politics behind the working time law needs to be understood to get a full view as people forced to work e.g. young doctors can be completely different to those not forced to work when the hours are the same and remember 'opt outs' do not apply to H&S areas
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I was told by an HSE Inspector that the opt-out is only valid for the rolling 48 hour week over the 17 week reference period, not for any other part of the limitations such as 11 hours between shifts or 1 x 24 period off in every 7 days or joined up 2 in 14 days ...
It was a while ago but it may be worth asking the lawyers for an opinion.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Newish guidance from Highways England on fatigue. Google IAN 189 and IAN 190
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Rank: Super forum user 
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There may be restrictions on the times you may work from a local noise point of view.
Control of Pollution Act
Chris
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Rank: Forum user
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Thank you for all the responses.
I fully agree with the comment about driving home afterwards - big issue.
The incident that brought this issue to the fore was an agency operative that worked 20, 19, 20 hours on consecutive days. That's 4 hours off site, not 4 hours sleep.
It only came to my attention because the agency questioned the submitted time sheet and our resource manger passed it on to me for comment.
As mentioned earlier - an accident waiting to happen
With regard to the 72 hours straight mentioned above - I'm not sure how anyone can function in any meaningful way after 3 days without sleep.
Also, agree with the comment about agency staff taking whatever work is on offer, while its on offer. However, on that subject, does the Agency, as the employer, not have some responsibility to flag this up as a safety issue. It was only flagged to us as a possible erroneous/exaggerated wage claim.
Thanks again
Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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fiesta wrote:Hello All,
After discovering an instance of agency construction (shop fit) operatives working very long hours overnight, on consecutive days I'm trying to put together a policy / guidance document containing broad sensible limits. This will cover our own employees who have opted out of the Working Time Directive and agency staff.
I appreciate that this is bit like "How long is a piece of string" given the many differing situations and tasks this is likely to have to cover but wondered if anyone else has done this and what levels they decided upon.
Our employed Site Managers regularly work 12 hours shifts and its not unheard of for them to work well over this when the pressure is on at the end of a job.
Thanks for any feedback
Andy Surely you have risk assessments...since long-hours = fatigue. Same with driving...driving while tired is a recognised risk factor...and even SE workers need to recognise this..
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Rank: Super forum user
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Common sense with as much real factual information as possible should be the guiding factors noting that what hours people work + the money they get is very political so H&S should not be politicial just realistic as people are more robust than many think Hours worked years ago in all kinds of jobs in high risk areas at 12 hours X 7 days a week for long periods with few real accidents was not uncommon & people earned plenty of dosh!
In A&E U would be seen by a young doc who is forced to do a regular 90 hour week and who is expected to take life or death decisions during/at the end of it yet nobody appears to bother about that situation & U have probably been restricted to <8 hours that day!
And agencies need the money also - best of luck
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Rank: Super forum user
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bob youel wrote:Common sense with as much real factual information as possible should be the guiding factors noting that what hours people work + the money they get is very political so H&S should not be politicial just realistic as people are more robust than many think Hours worked years ago in all kinds of jobs in high risk areas at 12 hours X 7 days a week for long periods with few real accidents was not uncommon & people earned plenty of dosh!
In A&E U would be seen by a young doc who is forced to do a regular 90 hour week and who is expected to take life or death decisions during/at the end of it yet nobody appears to bother about that situation & U have probably been restricted to <8 hours that day!
And agencies need the money also - best of luck "How does the EWTD protect me? The Directive was designed to protect the health and safety of workers by restricting the number of hours an individual can work and by imposing minimum rest requirements for all workers. Limiting working hours can help reduce the likelihood of doctors getting tired and therefore improve the quality of service they can deliver to patients. For Junior doctors it means: working hours have been reduced from an average of 56 per week to 48, calculated over a period of 26 weeks. Doctors are entitled to choose to work additional hours if they wish. a period of 11 hours continuous rest a day (or compensatory rest to be taken at another time if this is not achieved). a day off each week , or two days off in every fortnight (or compensatory rest) a 20 minute rest break every 6 hours (or compensatory rest) In addition, Junior doctors are also protected by an agreement with the government known as the New Deal. The New Deal and EWTD have some different limits and definitions. However Junior doctors will receive protection under whichever arrangements are more beneficial to them. However one of the major challenges that doctors continue to face is the way the EWTD is implemented. It brings risks" https://www.bma.org.uk/a...g-hours/ewtd-juniors-faqLong hours/fatigue/hospitals: what can go wrong! Still Bob, you go-on in the "in my day we worked 24-hours a day for years at a time" theme. 21st century now, some people have lives outside work....and the major reason people work long hours is not because they like it.
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