Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
michaelt  
#1 Posted : 02 September 2016 10:02:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
michaelt

We are required to display ‘no smoking’ signs in all workplaces and vehicles .
We used to do this with the company cars with tax disk holders that had the no smoking signage.
Now that tax disks are no more we have an issue.
I have raised this with our fleet management and they have responded:
"The argument against having these stickers in the cars is due to car users pay BIK (Benefit In Kind)and are allowed personal use. However we are covered by company policy that no smoking is allowed in any company vehicle".
I think that this is irrelevant and that we still need to display signage.
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 02 September 2016 10:11:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

See https://www.gov.uk/smoking-at-work-the-law
Essentially it is permitted to smoke in company vehicle if it is for the sole use of that driver. A company is within it rights to ban smoking in all of its vehicles. If these are vehicles are solely for the use of the named driver than it’s up to you. Basically you have to decide who sets the policy you or the fleet manager.
michaelt  
#3 Posted : 02 September 2016 10:23:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
michaelt

Thanks, the issue is not if we want to ban smoking from company cars.
We have done - all company vehicles are no smoking.
My query is do we need signage or is the fact that drivers have "benefit in kind" a good argument for not displaying signage?
A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 02 September 2016 10:29:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

michaelt wrote:
Thanks, the issue is not if we want to ban smoking from company cars.
We have done - all company vehicles are no smoking.
My query is do we need signage or is the fact that drivers have "benefit in kind" a good argument for not displaying signage?

Benefit in kind is not relevant-still company vehicle, you still set the policy.
hserc  
#5 Posted : 02 September 2016 10:31:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hserc

I have always refused to display it in my company provided car on the basis that it is my personal company car, not a shared workplace.

I do not smoke, no one in my family smokes and I absolutely will not allow anyone I carry (on business or otherwise) to smoke in my car.

I fail to see the point of displaying a sign in my car.
No McDonald's yes!
:-)
WatsonD  
#6 Posted : 02 September 2016 10:37:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

I would say save your energy for more important battles.

I can't see why the signage in cars is needed as long as the company-wide ban is clear.

michaelt  
#7 Posted : 02 September 2016 10:50:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
michaelt

Thanks for everyone's response.
Our policy is clear: no smoking in the vehicles.
Therefore additional signage is not required.
michaelt  
#8 Posted : 02 September 2016 11:03:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
michaelt

Sorry but I am still not convinced that if our policy states that vehicle are no smoking that this is sufficient and we do not have to display signage in vehicles.
The Smoke-free (Signs) Regulations 2012:
Duty to display no-smoking signs in vehicles
2. Any person with management responsibilities for a smoke-free vehicle shall be under a duty
corresponding to that mentioned in section 6(1) of the Act to ensure that at least one legible no smoking sign is displayed in that vehicle.
johnmurray  
#9 Posted : 02 September 2016 11:28:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

michaelt wrote:
Thanks for everyone's response.
Our policy is clear: no smoking in the vehicles.
Therefore additional signage is not required.


If the vehicle is lettered (IE: company name) it is illegal to not display a no smoking sign.
There have been quite a few prosecutions, with fines averaging around £200
michaelt  
#10 Posted : 02 September 2016 12:02:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
michaelt

I agree that having the company logo plastered all over the car makes it obvious that its a company car and is far more likely to attract a prosecution.
However, a company car is still a company car even if it does not have logo's, etc...
Therefore the requirement for signage (no smoking in this vehicle) should still apply.
Shouldn't it??
jwk  
#11 Posted : 02 September 2016 12:29:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Michaelt,

The registered keeper of the vehicle is not the company, they usually aren't even the owner, therefore in my view a sign is not required,

John
Mr.Flibble2.0  
#12 Posted : 02 September 2016 12:36:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr.Flibble2.0

As mentioned previously if someone is the sole user of that car for company business then that vehicle would be exempt from the reg's and would not require a no smoking sign.

If your company has decided that all vehicles are no smoking regardless then that's your choice but legally the vehicle would still be exempt.

But if you want to put signs in the cars and your company pays for the cars, put signs in the cars.
johnmurray  
#13 Posted : 03 September 2016 17:27:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

jwk wrote:
Michaelt,

The registered keeper of the vehicle is not the company, they usually aren't even the owner, therefore in my view a sign is not required,

John


If rented/hired, then the rental/hiring company very likely has restrictions as it affects the resale value.
If a rented vehicle, and signed by the company, then it is no smoking.
sadlass  
#14 Posted : 04 September 2016 17:38:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sadlass

For goodness sake.
Who cares if it has a NS notice in it or not.
Not H&S legislation - enforced by EHOs as public health law - how will they know if it's a company car if it has no logo? They have to catch you first.
It's not 'our' battle.
Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 05 September 2016 09:26:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Even if the company vehicle is signed should you encounter one of these extremely rare Environmental Health Officers they do not have powers to stop a vehicle, only issue the fine (understand this is given as the reason for no "prosecutions" under the October 2015 ban on smoking in vehicles carrying children - a much more visible offence than a relativley small sticker).
Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 05 September 2016 09:26:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Even if the company vehicle is signed should you encounter one of these extremely rare Environmental Health Officers they do not have powers to stop a vehicle, only issue the fine (understand this is given as the reason for no "prosecutions" under the October 2015 ban on smoking in vehicles carrying children - a much more visible offence than a relativley small sticker).
paul reynolds  
#17 Posted : 05 September 2016 12:31:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
paul reynolds

We have left the tax disc holder in place (no smoking sign still displayed)as it also holds our fleet management card so no issues, therefore why not leave the holder in place and job done. Our policy is also "No Smoking".

To be honest if they want to smoke in the car and feel they can get away with it, the presence of a stick will not deter them.

Regards

PR
hserc  
#18 Posted : 08 September 2016 09:01:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hserc

"2. Any person with management responsibilities for a smoke-free vehicle shall be under a duty
corresponding to that mentioned in section 6(1) of the Act to ensure that at least one legible no smoking sign is displayed in that vehicle."

There is more to this than meets the eye, as there is nowhere in The Smoke-free (signs) Regulations 2012 that defines what a "smoke-free" vehicle actually is. Instead, one is directed to the The Health Act 2006 Section 5.

This states (among other things):

5 VEHICLES
(1)The appropriate national authority may make regulations providing for vehicles to be smoke-free.

(2)The regulations may in particular make provision—
(a)for the descriptions of vehicle which are to be smoke-free,
(b)for the circumstances in which they are to be smoke-free,
(c)for them to be smoke-free only in specified areas, or except in specified areas,
(d)for exemptions.

But there is still no reference to any specific regulation by a "national authority" as to any provisions made under section 5 (2) above, to actually define what makes a vehicle "smoke-free" and by virtue of this, obliged to have a sign.

No wonder people are confused! HOWEVER - it HAS been defined...

This is on the www.gov.uk/smoking-at-work-the-law

SMOKING IN WORK VEHICLES
Smoking isn’t allowed in any work vehicle that more than one person uses, eg:
taxis
buses
vans
goods vehicles used by more than one driver
company cars used by more than one employee
A worker can smoke in a company car that only they use if their employer agrees.

A whole lot clearer methinks.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.