http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...south-yorkshire-37288326

Terrible incident. It will be interesting to see if the HSE pursues the line manager etc based on training / ignoring risk. This practice is standard in most schools.

Thanks for unnecessarily dissecting the post Graham.

By standard practise I was referring to unsafe WAH practice in schools where I know for fact good work at height is classed as working off ladders! other industries ban ladders.

At the risk of misunderstanding you, RO (apologies if so), just because some employers ban ladders (are there any entire industries who do?) doesn't mean they're inappropriate. I have a site for a client at the moment who bans scaffolds, for example...

As Graham says, unless we know the detail it's all speculation, but for the record I've seen situations at work where someone standing on a chair to put up a poster was perfectly sensible.

Well here we go speculating about the outcome we have limited information about, it must of course be someones fault, not sure why. It's a terrible accident but we don't know anything about the accident.

Most industries ban ladders, we don't and we have schools, residential establishments, we give a briefing on the safe use of ladders and why is it assumed that WAH in schools is poor in all schools.

I think we should wait until we have something to actually go on. My thoughts are with her family and friends at this sad time..

Putting up posters, pupils work has always been part of the school, but how many consider this in thier fire risk assessment when every corridor including escape routes are covered in work.

What I was trying to get across in my inarticulate way was that someone in what is regarded as a ‘low risk profession’ ie teaching was doing something routine: putting up something in the classroom and fell over (or off) and as a consequence of the accident died. People often give the impression that H&s is simply a matter of ‘common sense’ and that it is only relevant in serious industries such as construction or the railways etc.
It is not a matter of common sense it is a matter of good management, including planning and forethought. The worst injure I had to deal with was when an employee fell over box of files someone had left on the floor. That led to a nasty life changing injury. That was the sort of thing that caused me grief not the other stuff: COSHH, ionising radiation, working out in the countryside. Those things were recognisably a hazardous activity and as a result were well managed.
Anyway deepest sympathy to this poor woman’s family and colleagues and we await the result of any investigation.

We have absultly no evience that the teacher was not following safety measures, a risk assessment, method statement etc. she could have been trained in 'WAH' and just lost her footing anything could of happened but lets put the blame on someone!

We seem to be overlooking the fact that the death followed a medical complication so the method of work may mot be a direct cause of death. Who knows she may have had an adverse reaction to the anaesthetic

Okay, fair enough. Without much to go on its all just idle speculation anyway.

Wasn't really looking to post blame here, more that it seems to be an area where an accident was waiting to happen - not talking about this incident necessarily when I say that, more WAH in schools/offices in general. I should have separated the discussion from the actual incident.

Some on this thread are critical of discussing an incident without all the facts - its a fair point, but equally if an incident provokes thought around a subject area why not discuss the possibilities?

One of my points around ladders was aiming at the fact that I cant see how they can be used safely here. They are better than tables and chairs but I doubt you can create a display in a short time period or whilst keeping 3 points of contact. If it was the top end of the construction industry such work would be done from an automated pop up or podium.

The nice thing about risk perception is it is in the eye of the beholder (background, experience, prejudice and preference) as observation of what is pertinent relative to the location, task and individual

We are talking about a school environment and not a construction site - best practice at one does not necessarily correlate to a solution being suitable for the other

Ladders themselves are not an intrinsically unsafe product - if they were their sale would be banned under various existing EU and UK legislation and many industries rely upon the flexibility of movable ladder access (telecoms engineers, window cleaners etc.) and the HSE considered them appropriate for office decoration http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/nov07.htm

In a school environment the purchase of and access to certain equipment can be restricted due to budget issues or concern over potential miss-use by pupils

sadlass - Surely the intended use for a ladder is to access height and therefore it is built for purpose with associated safe load guidance, instructions for use etc - that isn't the use for a table or chair? tables don't come with guidance on how to use for work at height!

Roundtuit - agree about perception, but if schools have identified it as a risk - (they train staff on WAH so they must have it identified) surely there is no excuse but to offer the safest option of access?

RO you seem to be making assumptions on how schools are managed and supported.

WAH to most (non H&S enlightened) people does not include stepping up onto a chair or desk so starting from this mind set they are following their safest chosen option utilising available equipment.

Seen plenty of examples over the years of what you infer would be mis-behaviour at nursery, school, college and university parental access events.

Where schools have attempted control incidents still happen
http://www.telegraph.co....ladder-wins-damages.html

Sometimes work activities are so infrequent they get overlooked
http://www.plymouthheral...313537-detail/story.html

As an aside when we risk assessed office decoration for December - the safest (lowest overall risk) method other than banning was to stand on the desks!