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Rowe22822  
#1 Posted : 15 September 2016 12:22:00(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Rowe22822

Does anyone have any experience of enforcing driving rules in the workplace? We are having some issues with staff (driving their own cars) driving faster than the stated speed limit, against the one way system and parking in inappropriate places on our site. I've been asked to come up with a plan to tackle this but I don't know where to start!

RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 15 September 2016 12:28:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Ideally you should have a Driving Policy which will help with some poor driving practices and any breach of the RTA. Notwithstanding this, the issues you have illustrated are a disciplinary matter. Furthermore, you need to advise your staff of good/poor practices and to inform them offenders will be dealt with through the company disciplinary process.
Clark34486  
#3 Posted : 15 September 2016 12:58:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clark34486

H&S connotations, HR responsibility

The drugs & alcohol and Driving policy should sit with HR IMO, we are having similar 'debates' with HR at present, H&S depts. should of course assist with the formulation of policy (HSE guidance etc.) but I tend to think that ultimately enforcement and management of such policies sit with our HR friends
biker1  
#4 Posted : 15 September 2016 13:08:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Provided that you have set out the driving and parking rules for the site, and made employees aware of these, it would seem to me to be a simple line management issue of carrying out a disciplinary process if the rules are broken. Consult HR if you must, but disciplinary matters should sit with line managers.
DaveBridle  
#5 Posted : 15 September 2016 14:28:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveBridle

Agree policies of this nature should sit with HR.

Are these cars part of your fleet or are they individual employees owned vehicles. Company vehicles could be fitted with "telemetrics" which tracks vehicle speed, corner, braking etc. Surprising how driving habits change when they see the little box sat on the dashboard and the driver knowing that it is tracking their driving style.
MikeKelly  
#6 Posted : 15 September 2016 15:22:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MikeKelly

This is a safety issue by definition, eh?
I wouldn't have it anywhere near HR.
OHS set the policy[with participation of others] and management enforce or apply it-simple?
What have you done about it so far and how long has the problem been with you?
Regards
Mike
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 15 September 2016 15:24:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Disciplining staff is as several people mentioned a management responsibility not HR. monitoring safe practices on your site is usually down to H&S cos HR will never leave their nice cosy offices …
What you need to do is:
• Have a clear policy about driving on your site, ideally modelled after the highway code, which says that the on-site driving policy will be enforced through the normal disciplinary channels
• Have clear signage explaining the speed limits and where to park using standard road signage and road markings
• Get someone to monitor the driving on site- hire a speed gun, or one of the illuminated speed signs or just pretend you have a speed camera just show the employees that someone is looking at them and their driving behaviour
• If they break the rules report it their line manager
• If they won’t do anything about it and the people are routine offenders ban them from bring their vehicles on the site-make them park around the corner and walk in.
Clark34486  
#8 Posted : 15 September 2016 15:28:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clark34486

Pure HR/ line manager to enforce. HR to manage, H&S to advise

Unless you work for EHO/ LA or HSE a H&S practitioner should never be a policeman, IMO
A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 15 September 2016 16:20:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Clark34486 wrote:
Pure HR/ line manager to enforce. HR to manage, H&S to advise

Unless you work for EHO/ LA or HSE a H&S practitioner should never be a policeman, IMO

I hate being the H&S heavy but if H&s don't do who will... many line managers don't necessarily understand enough about the job at the front end to be able to identify poor practice…they are too busy doing manager type things like budgets.
If you see something wrong, do you walk on by saying, “That’s a management responsibility” or do get stuck in and explain what’s wrong? Speeding on site is just the sort of c**p that gets dropped on the H&S plate. The line managers are not going to queue up in the morning at the entrance and watch their underlings come on site in case they are speeding. But if it is an issue who will? Security guards?
The H&S cannot be a purely theoretical exercise (unless you are being very strategic) where you devise strategies and schemes and tell people it is now management responsibility to carry this out.
Clark34486  
#10 Posted : 15 September 2016 16:55:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clark34486

A Kurdziel wrote:
Clark34486 wrote:
Pure HR/ line manager to enforce. HR to manage, H&S to advise

Unless you work for EHO/ LA or HSE a H&S practitioner should never be a policeman, IMO

I hate being the H&S heavy but if H&s don't do who will... many line managers don't necessarily understand enough about the job at the front end to be able to identify poor practice…they are too busy doing manager type things like budgets.
If you see something wrong, do you walk on by saying, “That’s a management responsibility” or do get stuck in and explain what’s wrong? Speeding on site is just the sort of c**p that gets dropped on the H&S plate. The line managers are not going to queue up in the morning at the entrance and watch their underlings come on site in case they are speeding. But if it is an issue who will? Security guards?
The H&S cannot be a purely theoretical exercise (unless you are being very strategic) where you devise strategies and schemes and tell people it is now management responsibility to carry this out.

I am from a very operational background (initially military and then Electrical within engineering, construction and maintenance industry). The clip board idiot that turns up on site with an unblemished hi-viz, rigger boots and the sunglass type safety glasses simply makes the man on his tools puke. You have to be able to do exactly as you say, talk a matter through with them and show that you understand their stance/ POV, offer practical and achievable advice rather than simply state a regulation, explain 'how to' rather than 'what to'.

I have a real passion for law, my colleagues laugh because at a meeting I can generally state the case law and regulation verbatim, that's because I have a passion for it rather than a need to state and absolutely enforce it to my colleagues.

It's a line manager and HR duty to enforce disciplinary codes etc. OF COURSE I would never walk byI would always point something out and assist (the IOSH code is very practical in such instances of advice and codes)
pete48  
#11 Posted : 15 September 2016 22:32:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

What about hearts and minds?? All the responses so far rely upon after the event discipline. That just feels a bit old school approach to me. Of course you have to have a disciplinary policy that managers and HR manage but shouldn't it be the last resort?

Perhaps your employer is expecting an OSH bod to take a hearts and mind approach to the problem? There are complex reasons why this is happening; best check them out before doing anything else.

First try to find out why it is happening. Is it really just a simple couldn't give a damn or are there other reasons?

How long has it been going on? Have managers been ignoring or possibly even condoning it, do they do the same things? If so why?

Is it a cross section of employees and managers or just one group?

Is this a demonstration of a general attitude towards safe practice or just bringing 'poor everyday' driving habits into the workplace.

Would any changes to the rules and or facilities help to improve compliance?

Are your rules workable never mind enforceable? How practical will it be going forward to enforce and discipline consistently if you choose that approach?

I am sure there are many other questions to ask and rationalise before going down the 'smack on the back of the hand' approach. On its own it will never improve things.

Once you have this info then you can devise a strategy to improve matters. It feels like it needs a question, consult, communicate, control exercise to me. Good luck.
Invictus  
#12 Posted : 16 September 2016 08:00:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

We dealt with it a few years ago by issuing parking tickets that explained the action that would be taken if they continued to park or speed without respect for others or the rules, the ultimate outcome was they would be banned from parking on site, if they refused and contued to park disiplinary action would be taken against them.

The worse people was those getting in early and parking on the road instead of the car park. They would also be called out of work to move the car and were docked pay.

All information was given to themm in a handout with a date that the intended enforce beginning.

We also involved the union who supported this. The outcome although it took time was that we had a good parking system.
A Kurdziel  
#13 Posted : 16 September 2016 09:28:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Generally I am a believer in the softly, softly way, getting the guys on side approach. People will take short cuts because of work pressure or because they don’t really understand what the consequences are not following the correct procedure. Those excuses don’t really wash when it comes to speeding on site. People do because they think they can get away with it …so if a few get caught; the rest will get the message.
Bit harsh but that’s the way it is sometimes
Invictus  
#14 Posted : 16 September 2016 10:49:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Never believed in the softly softly approach myself, education yes, but policy and prodcedures should be written without grey areas just like 'RIDDOR'. There comes a time when enforcement of the rules come in to play otherwisee if there is no consequence to an action then there is no point in policies etc.

I believe that kids today behave the way they do because there are little consequence with the exception of a stern talking to or 2 mins on the naughty step.

These young people are coming into the workforce and need to know that rules are rules, the same as the whole workforce even those who 'have always done it that way'
MEden380  
#15 Posted : 16 September 2016 11:04:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MEden380

Rowe
I have and currently work on sites where there are speed limits.
Both sites are signed with the speed limits.
These speeds are reiterated at site inductions to both staff and contractors.
Staff who break the speed limits are simply banned from bringing their vehicles on site in to the staff car park. this is relatively easy to do as access is controlled with swipe cards and individuals can have access denied to certain areas/gates such as car park access.
As Invictus says previously, rules are rules, here are the consequences. Break the rule and pay the price.
Mr.Flibble2.0  
#16 Posted : 16 September 2016 11:24:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr.Flibble2.0

I'm sorry for a moment I though it was the 1980's again. Sack erm all! ha go to love that old school attitude! and how on earth does this have anything to do with HR!

Rowe

Look at the reason's why this is happening and look at why people would want to break the rules, for example; 5 mph speed limits are often just not realistic and will not even register on certain vehicles speedometers so people will be tempted to break it. Look at where people park, is the parking in the right place, is it sufficient at different times a day. Does the one way system make sense, does it allow for easy access around the site?

Look at your parking plans, vehicle movement risk assessments; are they old? are they still relevant?

Don't go straight for disciplinary action, have chats with people and ask them why they are speeding, parking unsafely etc and ask them why they shouldn't be doing it, Let them know the reason why you have a one way system in place, some people do not realise the safety benefits of this.

Look at the signage on site, have the road markings worn off, is the signage in the right place.

People only break rules because there is a positive benefit for them to do so. Identify the positive reasons and they will help you to know what you need to change.
MEden380  
#17 Posted : 16 September 2016 11:39:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MEden380

Mr Fibblle
You are quite correct in what you write.
But I am assuming that a risk assessment has identified why there is a speed limit. there may be FLTs driving around, chemical tankers and pedestrians.
If you have identified risk and conveyed this to your workforce and put in place a speed restriction, what options do you have if they still decide they know better? As I said previously we did not discipline anyone , unless they were out right dangerous, we merely banned them bringing their vehicles on site.
A Kurdziel  
#18 Posted : 16 September 2016 13:12:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

MEden380 wrote:
Mr Fibblle
You are quite correct in what you write.
But I am assuming that a risk assessment has identified why there is a speed limit. there may be FLTs driving around, chemical tankers and pedestrians.
If you have identified risk and conveyed this to your workforce and put in place a speed restriction, what options do you have if they still decide they know better? As I said previously we did not discipline anyone , unless they were out right dangerous, we merely banned them bringing their vehicles on site.

We looked at 10 mph but people complained it was too slow so we restricted it that the area at the back near the stores where we have FLTs etc and for the rest of the site we decided that 20 was plenty. Of course some people complained and indicated that they would rather have something along the lines of 70 or 80 but we decided that we couldn’t risk that. H&S spoilsports you see.
(our risk assessment was of course based on a simulated model of the site using beetles to represent delivery vans, ants cyclists and weevils cars- we ran the simulation for 6 months to generate sufficient data and used our statistical resources to establish that these we the optimum speed limits…just joking; we just said 20 mph; less that the road speed but not so slow that anyone sensible might complain)
Happy Friday
Invictus  
#19 Posted : 16 September 2016 13:21:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Mr.Flibble2.0 wrote:
I'm sorry for a moment I though it was the 1980's again. Sack erm all! ha go to love that old school attitude! and how on earth does this have anything to do with HR!

Rowe

Look at the reason's why this is happening and look at why people would want to break the rules, for example; 5 mph speed limits are often just not realistic and will not even register on certain vehicles speedometers so people will be tempted to break it. Look at where people park, is the parking in the right place, is it sufficient at different times a day. Does the one way system make sense, does it allow for easy access around the site?

Look at your parking plans, vehicle movement risk assessments; are they old? are they still relevant?

Don't go straight for disciplinary action, have chats with people and ask them why they are speeding, parking unsafely etc and ask them why they shouldn't be doing it, Let them know the reason why you have a one way system in place, some people do not realise the safety benefits of this.

Look at the signage on site, have the road markings worn off, is the signage in the right place.

People only break rules because there is a positive benefit for them to do so. Identify the positive reasons and they will help you to know what you need to change.



can't see where anyone said sack anyone, but it's typical that we will not stand workers working in an unsafe manner in all industry but we are willing to allow them to create hazards because they are 'not in work yet' if we do not have a responsibility then nothing needs to be done, if we do then we need to hold those people responsible.
Stern  
#20 Posted : 16 September 2016 13:40:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stern

I can't believe some of the responses to this. Hearts and minds? Talking to the culprits to see why they're doing it? Reviewing risk assessments...? Whatever next!?

By the sounds of it the OP has a formal traffic management system in place, in as much as they have signage, parking areas etc. For me, other than perhaps checking that the signage is visible, understandable and appropriate and maybe sending out a memo to all staff reminding them of the rules, the logical next step is discipline.

Bear in mind...

- If you were to speed on a public road you wouldn't get a cup of tea and a chat from a policeman. You'd be fined and/or receive penalty points and a conviction.
- If you deliberately drove the wrong way down a one-way street, you'd likely get the same treatment.
- If you parked somewhere where you weren't allowed to park you'd get a ticket.

The long and the short of it is that you can talk to somebody for as long as you want about why they are speeding but if they know that they're not going to be punished for doing it then they'll just do it again.
chris42  
#21 Posted : 16 September 2016 13:40:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

quote=A Kurdziel]
MEden380 wrote:
Mr Fibblle
our risk assessment was of course based on a simulated model of the site using beetles to represent delivery vans, ants cyclists and weevils cars- we ran the simulation for 6 months to generate sufficient data and used our statistical resources to establish that these we the optimum speed limits…just joking;

Happy Friday


Of course you were joking, for a real test you would have had to have used creatures with less common sense than the average employee. Well, when was the last time you noted a beetle with a broken ankle from stepping up a curb or an ant walking into another ant! I admit some cars may be driven by Weevils.

Also just joking, sort of.

How about a tow truck, they will get the idea when they can no longer find their car ( which later turns out to be the other side of town in an NCP car park (other expensive car parks exist).

Still just joking , sort of.

Check why employees do what they do, ie do they need to load up their vehicles etc. Then possibly a campaign of communication, posters briefings etc. Lastly yes disciplinary, the rules are there for a reason and that should be it will not be safe otherwise, not just a whim or it looks untidy.

Chris
Snwdrp84  
#22 Posted : 23 September 2016 14:45:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Snwdrp84

Have you thought about altering the speed limit to a non standard number. If it was 10 Mph, how about 8 or 12mph. You are more likely to notice a unusual speed limit and ask why its set at that usual number.

Speed gun had a remarkable effect at our site, people sit up and take notice when a speed gun is pointing at them.

Think that there has to be a consequence of breaking a rule. If staff are made accountable for their actions they are normally less likely to do this action repeatedly
lisar  
#23 Posted : 28 September 2016 20:22:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lisar

Personally I'd carry out a transport risk assessment to cover off this area and then implement my recomendations. That way you can enforce your policy and rules regardless of who owns the car. Depending on what support you have, if they ignored the rules would ban there vehicles from site or go down disciplinary route.

The business has the duty of care for pedestrians and other vehicle on site.
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