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AM1  
#1 Posted : 24 October 2016 09:26:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AM1

Good morning all.

I came across a potential new site that had one building on it that had not been in use for 5 years. If we take over the site, we would intend to use this building in question. At the very top floor there are two fire escapes, one at either side of the building. One leads to an external stair case, the other leads to a vertical ladder at a height at least 15 metres to the floor.

I must be honest here, and say that I have never come across these before. Are they still allowed? What kind of statutory inspection programme is needed? I certainly would not like to use them!

firesafety101  
#2 Posted : 24 October 2016 10:16:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Unless your name is Fred Dibnah I would have the ladder removed. If the second fire escape is required have a staircase installed.

Get your fire risk assessment done, by a competent experienced fire risk assessor and see what is recommended.

The reason for replacing the ladder is they are not recommended as escape routes as there are so many potential problems.

Good luck and let is know how it all goes.

gerrysharpe  
#3 Posted : 24 October 2016 10:20:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

The vertical one you discribe is called a Cat Ladder and are pretty common on Commercial and Industrial buildings

They are normally Galvanised and should be inspected the same time as any other fire escapes. To comply with current legislation they should have hoops fitted to prevent you falling from height. 

An idea of the current Sizes etc and to ensure the ladder meets the current regs you can take a peek at the picture below

You can read up a bit more on these hooped ladders here http://www.hse.gov.uk/safetybulletins/hoopedladders.htm

thanks 2 users thanked gerrysharpe for this useful post.
JayPownall on 24/10/2016(UTC), score on 24/10/2016(UTC)
firesafety101  
#4 Posted : 24 October 2016 10:27:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Gerry, I didn't know we could put pictures on the forum, well done for getting these on.

Looks to me like that is a roof access ladder and not fire escape.

I'm definately interested.
thanks 1 user thanked firesafety101 for this useful post.
gerrysharpe on 26/10/2016(UTC)
AM1  
#5 Posted : 24 October 2016 13:21:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AM1

Good point, firesafety101 - I can also find reference to these ladders but as you rightly point out they are for a fundamentally different use.

Andrew W Walker  
#6 Posted : 25 October 2016 08:21:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

We have just had a mez floor installed- our building control surveyors had the design changed to include a cat ladder, as there wasn't one on the original design.

5.22 of Approved Document B gives guidance

Andy

Xavier123  
#7 Posted : 25 October 2016 09:49:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Slightly off topic. Apologies.

'Safety' hoops.

I've watched the videos from the HSE research programme of dropping mannequins down hooped ladders.  Not pretty.  The HSE statement on it is a little fudged and focuses on interaction with fall arrest equipment so doesn't really do the hoops alone issues justice. 

Those hoops don't prevent a fall i.e. your hand and feet slipping or mistepping whilst climbing.  And I can't see that they mitigate the effects of a fall unless you're launching yourself backwards.  The videos I've seen make you wince when you see mannequins bashing necks and jaws onto to the edges of hoops. I'd rather land on my feet and break my legs thank you very much. Better than a sliced or compressed jugular. If you read the research reports 258 and 657, they're hardly glowing about the effects of a fall whilst within the cage.

So not sure they serve any useful purpose at all if the ladder has other appropriate handholds etc..  Pretty sure they've been discussed elsewhere on this forum before.

If ladder is substantial enough to address risk of a fall, I suspect rest platforms or vertical fall arrest system is more appropriate for a new design....sans hoops.  Even though that goes against the BS.

Sorry, not helpful for an existing 'fire escape' ladder!

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