Hi

councils etc. already have leagle duties but as usual too few staff and too little money & things will only get worse

Welcome to Cameron's deregulated utopia - cut the rules having already cut the policing

Every sphere is similarly affected.

How often is mobile use behind the wheel the subject of a post, survey or report bemoaning the behaviour of society without sufficient resource to enforce the law -  then we get the much publicised once in a blue moon "blitz" on the problem.

Believe locally the same driver got caught TWICE within the hour when returning past the same check point!

Edited by user 17 November 2016 21:48:07(UTC)  | Reason: trying to type english

Speaking as a serving LA inspector....in the field of h&s.

The Enforcement Code is the main current driver for the reduction in our numbers.  There has been a massive reduction in proactive inspection over the last 5 years and a tangible, recorded drop in the number of fte working in h&s regulation in LAs.  The data is available:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/enforcement-lae1-returns.htm

At a time of austerity, 'unnecessary' services will be cut.  The Government demanded 1/3 less inspections arbitrarily off the back of various reports and, at its most simple, that's an argument for 1/3 less staff.

The loss of regular inspection activity exacerbates the decline in competence in LA inspectors because, as noted, many are dual or multiple function (not necessarily a problem though I hasten to add!).

Yes, we can inspect high-risk activities (essentially those on the prescribed list appended to the code) or businesses where we have intelligence there is an issue.  We can't cross the threshold without a good reason.  It's still a massive reduction in scope over that which was previously in place.

FFI may well come along for LAs but it won't really help - see recent thread on HSE costs of running FFI (now imagine each LA does it without the economies of scale of a national organisation).

But to go back to the OP.  I don't necessarily disagree, level playing field etc. but yeah...thing is....LAs look after significantly more businesses than the HSE.  How do you propose to ensure that they are all legally compliant?  Even when the HSE were well resourced, they couldn't ever expect to visit all their businesses - or even sound them out in some other fashion with regards compliance.

This is effectively what the country voted for - rightly or wrongly.

Remember according to George, we are all in 'it' together. Just some are more 'in' than others.....

Hi all & to repeat [with correct spelling!]

Councils and their various departments already have many legal duties which cover almost all things however the £ resourses made available; since the bankers last ripped us off in a big way, and the politics involved do not make the wellbeing of their staff especially nor the community a high priority and I would advise anybody who has never been involved with a council to get themselves involved and only then will they see just what we are up against and unfortunately its a pipedream to expect different

best of luck to all

HI  Unfortunately I believe that there is a brick wall both within the council and there are external elements e.g. the government stopping them being proactive - only today I watched young children being put onto the street so if they are prepaired to that ask yourself what else are they prepaired to do/not do?  That said there are many thousands of really good people doing their best however they tend to be front line staff with not enough at the top

Private business will progress with good H&S advisers at their side

best of luck

Are we really saying there is a Politician or group of politicians out there saying to councils not to enforce H&S compliance? Oust them! in the papers, TV and social media. Isn’t that the point of us all belonging to groups such as IOSH, to give us strength in numbers.

Let’s make it important that peoples safety in work is considered sacrosanct. Change people opinion of H&S that there is “too much H&S”, when challenged these people can’t say where, because of a successful campaign to belittle the field. H&S is not considered a profession.

When politicians think they will win votes or more likely loose votes, if they are not on board with these ideals, is the way to do it. Or embarrass the heck out of them.

My local councils seem to be willing to enforce littering and dog fouling, by employing an external company to monitor and fine people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-29643652

So this sort of thing can be done! And they don’t have to employ external people who need to make a profit, keep it in house.

It is apparent and undeniable that the number of LA inspectors and inspections has been driven down dramatically by Government 'Deregulation' policy and the National Local Authority Enforcement Code issued by HSE.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/laU/national-la-code.pdf

There is no doubt that this Code ( not deliberately) gave many LAs an apparent green light to slash resources with respect to H&S at a time when dramatic 'austerity' service area cuts were required.

As a committed and experienced LA based H&S inspector I must come back at A. Kurdziel‘s remarks In his post he stated;“Most rely on people doubling up usually EHO’s, who know their way around HACCP and noise pollution but don’t know one end of a risk assessment from the other.

I can advise that there are still many LA H&S inspectors that are fighting their corner and who are very competent. I would suggest A. Kurdiel investigates further – ask for instance how many EHOs have an EH Degree but also possess H&S qualifications and experience that may match or exceed his own?

This is not meant to be a short-sighted or arrogant comment. I know there are many EHOs focused on Food Safety that are required (without sufficient update training) to double up as inspectors. However, I also know that within HSE there are brilliant and poor inspectors (I have worked with both). As a final heretic point on the IOSH discussion board could I suggest there are both excellent and incompetent H&S advisors/consultants?

That off my chest I would thank some respondents (e.g. Brain Hagyard & Xavier123) who have read the National Code and spoken to LA inspectors and can understand the restraints we operate under.

Finally I would make the point that LAs could be made to up their ‘H&S enforcement’ game. LAs have a DUTY to make “adequate arrangement to enforce H&S within their area” under Section 18 of the ACT. If they fail to do so HSE (who should monitor) can report to the Minister with a view to sanctions that include another enforcing authority taking control at the failing LA’s expense.

Now that would prioritise H&S in the eyes of Councils!! How many times do you think that this has been done? ZERO!! Compare HSE with the Food Standards Agency who regularly audit LA Food Safety functions and where performance is poor those LAs are supported or have to divert extra resources to meet an action plan – guess where the easiest place is to get the resources? Yes the H&S service.