Rank: Super forum user 
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we have employees who might do a 15 hour shift (not driving), In a care setting but after a long day asked to drive to pick up people. Is ther any definitive regulations about hours worked and driving. I am not talking about how many hours someone can drive for.
Regards
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Surely as they are being "asked" to drive to pick up people that would count as part the hours at work and so the normal 48 hrs rule will apply
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Invictus,
15 hours shift, plus whatever time it takes to pick people up, seems a seriously long day particularly in the care sector.
What does your risk assessment and safety policy say about the likely effects on the workers/ patients/ general public?
I don't think I'd like to be following this regime or be one of your patients, although obviously I dont know the ins and outs of your operations ie how many 15 hour shifts.
It seems like an accident might be about to happen, eh?
Regards
Mike
Edited by user 16 November 2016 11:39:46(UTC)
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Invictus
This type of scenario is not uncommon in many industries and not just Care. The law is very nebulous when it comes to working hours and driving as part of the job. In my view and for what it's worth, the only real legal aspect is a Duty of Care, which is owed to the employee and also anyone affected by the undertaking, which of course is a civil law doctrine. It could be argued that s2/3 of HSWA could apply in general terms but unlikely to be invoked. The problem is a DoC will only be examined following a serious incident and in court. Compounding this each case will be judged on the individual material facts.
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Rank: Forum user
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Invictus, own thing you could do is use the HSE Fatigue Calculator RR446cal.xls, I used to use this when staff were being moved to new sites whilst living near to the original location, we also used this tool to look at different shift patterns. It may be of help especially when forcast over a couple of months. Martin
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Rank: Forum user
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Working Time Regulations.
10.—(1) An adult worker is entitled to a rest period of not less than eleven consecutive hours in each 24-hour period during which he works for his employer.
Some shift work is exempt, although I would suggest a 15 hour day is excessive and then expecting someone to drive, the risk levels go up. Tiredness is a major cause of accidents on the road.
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 2 users thanked Chrishutcheson for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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Working Time Regulations.
10.—(1) An adult worker is entitled to a rest period of not less than eleven consecutive hours in each 24-hour period during which he works for his employer.
Some shift work is exempt, although I would suggest a 15 hour day is excessive and then expecting someone to drive, the risk levels go up. Tiredness is a major cause of accidents on the road.
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2 users thanked Chrishutcheson for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Chris you just beat me to it. I think you may already have a problem Invictus, even if the person goes straight to work and back home, this is likely to take up an hour, leaving them just 8 hours to sleep. No life, no food, no children time etc. But this monkey should not be on your shoulders, it is HR. You obviously don't think it a good idea yourself or you would not have posted the question, but I guess powers that be, have other ideas. 15 hours is almost a double day (2x 8 hour shifts) and they want them to taxi people as well. Best of luck, for you and them. Chris
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