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Russ1977  
#1 Posted : 22 November 2016 10:43:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

Hi all,

I would really appreciate some feed back on the following;

I work in a University and we have recently evacuated our maining building twice due to the fire alarms being triggered, I know that the FSO says something along the lines of "people should be evacuated as quickly as possible" rather than stating an exact time.

In both incidents we have witnessed people still leaving the building 15-20 minutes after the alarm has been sounded, having received feedback from fire wardens it would appear that was nothing untoward happening that caused it to take so long, more that the escape routes became congested.

Does anyone have any thoughts regarding ways to ease congestion? does 15-20 sound a long time in a building that at anyone time could easily be hosting 300-500 staff/students? I'm originally from a more corporate background and these have been my first experience of evacs at a uni.

Any pointers as ever would be very much appreciated.

Cheers guys

douglas.dick  
#2 Posted : 22 November 2016 10:56:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
douglas.dick

It does sound a long time and I believe that this would require some investigation. I think you need to establish if people are using their nearest exit or the one they usually do. Look at way to encourage nearest exit use if as I suspect this is the case. Ask those who were/are last out where they came from and why it took that time.

Also walk the route yourelf, time it, look for areas that will bottleneck and solutions to this. If it takes 15-20 minutes to leave the building, then assuming there are no nearer exits, then alternative additional exits should be looked at.

With the limited information given, its difficultv to advise anything else. However, its important that an evacuation event may not mean a fire. In these modern times it may be a security event, which means everyone really should be aware of their nearest exit.

Its quite possible that signage and lights may need to be looked at to highlight the closest exit.

MadiB  
#3 Posted : 22 November 2016 10:57:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MadiB

Hi RUSS1977 I think that sounds like a very long time to still be exiting the building. Are they using the fire exits or just pouring out through the same doors they arrived through? We block those routes (using the H&S committee) in a drill so that they have to use the fire exits. We are a mixed facility of offices and warehousing and we have all 260 people out in about 1 minute 30/45 seconds. M
A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 22 November 2016 11:08:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I have just started a job at a university and something similar happened here. At my last job, government research labs, two story buildings we expected everybody to be out in less than 5 minutes, and we sometimes doing it 2 or 3 minutes (that’s upto 200 people in block). At University (13 storey 1960’s block) we seem to have managed it in about 10 minutes and then a class from a lecture theatre on the top floor turned up nearly 15 minutes after the alarm. They seemed rather lackadaisical, chatting, checking their phones and not worried about being the last people out. We got some vague excuse about them being the last people out and the stairs could not cope with crowds.

They all went dowm one staircase as this was the one closest to that lecture theatre and no it was not their normal stairs. Apparently it used to be much worse, with some lecturers not letting students out at all unless they were told by a fire marshal to go.

It's a Uni thing ( not ideal but needs a fundamental shift in culture)

Russ1977  
#5 Posted : 22 November 2016 11:15:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

Thanks guys.

All training given, inductions, fire action notices etc encourage using the nearest available exit in addition we have fire wardens ushering people along.

Not sure what else we can do, am thinking about sending out a communication to all staff and students saying something along the lines of "always use your nearest available exit rather than route that you use to enter the building, unless that is your nearest way out"?

Am at a loss to some extent on how to improve it.

douglas.dick  
#6 Posted : 22 November 2016 11:23:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
douglas.dick

You may also have cctv coverage of the areas, if so look at that for bottleneck areas. I assume there are various final exits and the timings are actually people leaving the building and not appearing at assembly points.

Russ1977  
#7 Posted : 22 November 2016 11:26:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

also because of congestion, I am told that some people started to turn back and look for alternative routes, I have time and again told people that they should only seek an alternative if an exit route is compromised.

Invictus  
#8 Posted : 22 November 2016 11:39:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Originally Posted by: Russ1977 Go to Quoted Post

also because of congestion, I am told that some people started to turn back and look for alternative routes, I have time and again told people that they should only seek an alternative if an exit route is compromised.

What do you deem as compromised? I would think if people are standing in a queue for 20 minutes then the exit is compromised. If you have so many trying to get out and there are not enough exits and suggests that the building wasn't made to hold this many people.

RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 22 November 2016 11:42:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Russ, it may not just be because of the evacuation routes being congested but could be because people are delaying to send that email, finish a phone converstation, collecting personal belongings, etc. I would consider doing an evacuation drill with fire marshals and observers recordng events and timing the exit points. Followed by a (hot) debreif with the aforementioned involved. Only by a proper analysis of events will you be able to fully appreciate any shortcomings which may impair escape.
Russ1977  
#10 Posted : 22 November 2016 11:57:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

Thanks Ray,

I have follow up forms from all Wardens but they just mention congestion without stating any reason that may have been the cause.

I have asked them all but each time, they only seem to suggest it was sheer volume of people.

Very frustrating especially when others are expecting me to provide solutions.

A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 22 November 2016 12:05:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Getting people down thirteen floors using a single set of stairs is itself a challenge, especially when it  is obvious some of them have an aversion to using stairs at all ( the youngsters who are happy to wait to use a lift to go up one floor it amazing).

They are young and so have no conception of really danger. Fires and the like only happen on TV or video games not the real world as far as they are concerned.

Any sort of break (including a fire drill) is an opportunity to check their bleeding phones and to show off to their mates.

Some of the lecturers are no better feeling that the University must forge on ahead with its teaching time table no matter what. (I was asked the question as to whether, the drill was necessary, and why not do it at the weekend or during a holiday when there was nobody about)

WatsonD  
#12 Posted : 22 November 2016 13:44:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

When I worked in a college we did one every term - and that was on top of the unplanned ones set off by acts of vandalism.

Everytime, everyone knew what to do. We are all drilled on these every few months from our first few days of school. Different building/ different layout but the procedure is the same. However, familiarity breeds complacency. No one panics because no-one believes they are at risk. There is no jeopardy. IOSH magazine had an article about this a few months back which sparked some debate.

There are many things for you to consider. Most of which have been suggested. It may be that you need to conduct a couple more, maybe positioning yourself in the room with the slowest group to see what its like at the back.

Edited by user 22 November 2016 15:56:00(UTC)  | Reason: Duplication of a word

Invictus  
#13 Posted : 22 November 2016 14:08:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Does your assembly point have anything to do with it, i.e. the congestion is based around they can stay in the building longer so all use the same door closest to the assembly point?

do you have signs for different areas to move in another direction towards a separate exit. There could be a lot of reasons which have been mentioned so it is worth being in the area were the time taken is longest and see what happens, if they are taking thier time it might be worth 'lighting a fire under them' to get a move on.

A Kurdziel  
#14 Posted : 22 November 2016 15:03:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: Invictus Go to Quoted Post

Does your assembly point have anything to do with it, i.e. the congestion is based around they can stay in the building longer so all use the same door closest to the assembly point?

do you have signs for different areas to move in another direction towards a separate exit. There could be a lot of reasons which have been mentioned so it is worth being in the area were the time taken is longest and see what happens, if they are taking thier time it might be worth 'lighting a fire under them' to get a move on.

in my case I thing that the assembly point, was an issue as it was just outside the final  exit door, and once they had all decamped it was very crowded there. We intend to move it around the corner to create an empty space in front of the building.

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