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WatsonD  
#1 Posted : 30 November 2016 15:59:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

I have just been advised on a RA submitted and was surprised by this particular comment.

"Would remove SNR 37 for hearing protection as this would fall below the recommended minimum noise level of 70dB when using tools ranging from 86dB – 101dB"

The ear plugs/ defenders we supply our operatives as standard are 37 SNR. I have never been questioned on this before and now I am doubting myself. I had never heard of a minimal recommended noise level of 70dB - is this a thing, or should I argue this back?

A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 30 November 2016 16:12:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

This is from the Noise work leaflet –INDG 362(rev. 2) Selecting suitable hearing protectors-

It says you should-

“choose a suitable protection factor – sufficient to eliminate risks from noise but not so much protection that wearers become isolated; “

Essentially it says that although you have to bring the noise levels in employees ears down below the action levels you should not overdo it and completely eliminate all of background noise.

There is no ‘minimum noise level’ –I don’t know where they got 70 dB from.

 

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
WatsonD on 01/12/2016(UTC)
Mr.Flibble2.0  
#3 Posted : 30 November 2016 16:13:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr.Flibble2.0

Two Questions to ask; 

1. Recommend by whom?

2. What is the risk of not being able to hear below 70dB as if hearing protection is required in some areas to protect from 85dB and above how does the mimum risk of 70dB not still exisit?

I do belive you should be asking if the other one has bells on

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WatsonD on 01/12/2016(UTC)
chris42  
#4 Posted : 30 November 2016 16:15:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Yes I have come across this before, I was told this could be an issue making the person feel isolated and difficult to hear warning alarms etc. 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/goodpractice/hearingoverprotect.htm

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WatsonD on 01/12/2016(UTC)
bill.k_2016  
#5 Posted : 30 November 2016 16:22:58(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
bill.k_2016

There is a chance that by using a higher SNR than required workers can become disconnected and less aware of things going on around them, I would imagine thats what they were getting at.

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WatsonD on 01/12/2016(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 30 November 2016 22:04:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Good example of why blanket PPE is never the answer. Noise problem - cheap control - ear plugs Unfortunately reality Noise problem - set ear plug - anechoic chamber Having stood in several of these around the country I found the experience rapidly disturbing verging on nauseous. As humans we are genetically attuned to natural noise - remove this and we can feel psychological and physical discomfort ergo don't over do the hearing protection.
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WatsonD on 01/12/2016(UTC), WatsonD on 01/12/2016(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 30 November 2016 22:04:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Good example of why blanket PPE is never the answer. Noise problem - cheap control - ear plugs Unfortunately reality Noise problem - set ear plug - anechoic chamber Having stood in several of these around the country I found the experience rapidly disturbing verging on nauseous. As humans we are genetically attuned to natural noise - remove this and we can feel psychological and physical discomfort ergo don't over do the hearing protection.
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
WatsonD on 01/12/2016(UTC), WatsonD on 01/12/2016(UTC)
WatsonD  
#8 Posted : 01 December 2016 08:07:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Thank you all for your replies.

I should point out that the hearing protectiong is for sporadic drilling works on a construction site and would therefore not be a constant noise and the hearing protection would only be used during this time.

Edited by user 01 December 2016 08:09:49(UTC)  | Reason: Unfinished sentence

PeteCharlesworth  
#9 Posted : 01 December 2016 08:29:13(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
PeteCharlesworth

70 dB comes from hse

see link below

http://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/goodpractice/hearingoverprotect.htm

Hally  
#10 Posted : 01 December 2016 11:26:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hally

One of my factory units which is compulsory hearing protection had this issue on it's first xmas shutdown. We went from a lot of noise (grinders, welders, FLT's and the like). As they hit shutdown and the machinery were receiving maintenance you couldn't actually hear the FLTs moving around the unit. Think we were on SNR24 or that region, so for the staff still on site it was agreed that only people either using machinery or in the area had to wear the protection (limited staff on site), as it was only the occasional grinder being used. Obviously on any shutdown period, it is now addressed with this in mind and works as it should.
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 01 December 2016 11:57:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: PeteCharlesworth Go to Quoted Post

70 dB comes from hse

see link below

http://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/goodpractice/hearingoverprotect.htm

I am surprised that the HSE actually set a level. Of course, this is guidance and there is no actually legally enforceable level. The principle is that you do not eliminate all noise with hearing protection, just reduce it to an acceptable level.

70 dB is not that loud, remembering that the dB is a logarithmic scale and 70 dB is one tenth of the energy of 80 dB and normal conversation is in the 60-70 dB range.

Alfie  
#12 Posted : 01 December 2016 12:15:26(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Alfie

I fully agree with the comments on feeling isolated with lower levels of noise. As with everything, 70dB comes only as a guidance.

A proposed solution would be to look into ear plugs offering a lower SNR. HSE also offers some guidance on over-protection here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/goodpractice/hearingoverprotect.htm 

Hope this helps.

Alfie

Waz  
#13 Posted : 01 December 2016 14:51:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Waz

As I'm sure you all know, SNR = Single Number Rating, which is a very quick guide as to the level of protection that hearing protection offers (if fitted correctly). therefore at a level of 85dB(A), using an 'ear plug' with a rating of  SNR37, this would in effect reduce the level of noise in the ear to 48dB(A) - again the disclaimer, if fitted correctly.  Our general speech is around 60-65dB(A), so it is particularly dangerous to use that level of protection.  Of course, most people do not fit plugs correctly, so the level of protection is typically reduced by 4-6dB(A).

Remember in terms of PPE, one size doesn't fit all!

walker  
#14 Posted : 01 December 2016 15:03:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

You are confusing apples & oranges

There is no minimum noise level recommended by HSE ..........for the workplace

Lowest level SFARP it says somewhere in the regs

Something recommended for PPE is another kettle of fish.....I sort of see the benefit of not removing all sound.  

walker  
#15 Posted : 01 December 2016 15:10:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

I have always treated SNRs much like Volkswagen's emmisions data  

A Kurdziel  
#16 Posted : 01 December 2016 15:26:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The original post was about people saying that ear protection with a SNR of 37 for noise in the range of 80-107 dB was excessive. Bu that is based on the assumption that the ear protection is functioning perfectly and as several people have said the SNR value can be taken with a pinch of salt (because of the ear protection not being worn correctly or just not fitting that particular person) which means that the requirement should be much vaguer than ear protection must not reduce the noise level below 70 dB . Again I am surprised that the HSE put an exact figure on it.  

safetydude1957  
#17 Posted : 01 December 2016 16:46:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetydude1957

Taken from the HSE website http://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/calculator.htm

Select a protector so that daily exposure is reduced to at least below 85 dB.  Ideally, aim for between 80 and 75 at the ear.  Avoid protectors resulting in less than 70 dB at the ear - this is 'over-protection' (see BS EN 458:2004).

​​​​​​​

A Kurdziel  
#18 Posted : 02 December 2016 09:05:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: safetydude1957 Go to Quoted Post

Taken from the HSE website http://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/calculator.htm

Select a protector so that daily exposure is reduced to at least below 85 dB.  Ideally, aim for between 80 and 75 at the ear.  Avoid protectors resulting in less than 70 dB at the ear - this is 'over-protection' (see BS EN 458:2004).

Still only guidance-See BS EN 458:2016 Hearing protectors: Recommendations for selection, use, care and maintenance. Guidance document

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