Rank: New forum user 
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Hello everyone i am looking into compence for my company when it comes to using pillar drill, grinders ect. Does engineering degree or apprenticeships count towards this or do they need to have seperate training?
Thanks in advance
Regards, Jason
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Rank: Super forum user
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General training counts as part of engineering competence.
You might like to think about specific training for your particular machines e.g. capacity/specification of each machine, the type of work the machines are meant to be used for, how/where the controls are positioned and operated etc
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Engineering apprenticeships, I would generally say yes, as they are practical based, I know I did one. Degree not so sure. Once as an apprentice I was in discussion with someone finishing their Engineering degree about lathes. At one point, they exclaimed “I’ve seen a picture of one”.
Reality is, it is possible that these items of equipment have never previously been used by either group. Therefore, they may not understand the importance of some issues that surround these machines. A lot of people feel you can grind down any type of material with the same grinding wheel, for instance both aluminium and Steel, not good. I would make sure they understand the relevant issue with these machines. Chris
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Can I ask why? are you suggesting that only people with an engineering degree can use a pillar drill etc. We use grandad teaching for them items, people who we deem competent, time served, experience etc. We would not expect everyone who was using a hammer to be a time served carpenter.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Originally Posted by: northerngent101  Hello everyone i am looking into compence for my company when it comes to using pillar drill, grinders ect. Does engineering degree or apprenticeships count towards this or do they need to have seperate training?
The worst (most dangerous) abuse of a milling machine I ever saw was someone who was two-thirds of the way through their engineering degree. They went on to try and lift up a whole multi-tonne machine on one bottle jack under one corner, the jack itself on a jenga-like stack, the whole lot teetering as you looked at it (fortunately that endeavor was stopped by a labourer before he attempted the lift).
I wouldn't take an engineering degree as any indicator of practical competence, myself (and I speak as one in possesion of an engineering degree).
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Rank: Super forum user
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The HSE are not that interested in what training a person has had: certificates do not a competent worker make. Competence is a wider thing and I think it boils down to this: First- the person must have the right attitude.
Once you (or rather the person who manages them) believe they do have the right attitude you can go onto looking at the training, which should be suitable for both the task and the person doing the learning. It might be practical, hands on (kinaesthetic) or academic but it must be the correct training. Once they have done the training then their knowledge has to be assessed, to make sure that it is correct. They then need an opportunity to use this knowledge and they can gain experience of the job and finally they can demonstrate the actual skill needed to do the job safely.
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Rank: Forum user
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People often say things to impress or to save face. You need to be confident that they do know what they are doing. The best way to ensure that someone is deemed competent to use such items that you mention would be for you to complete a Company “Safe System of Working” for the items, and then arrange for the operators to be taken through this safe operating procedure by a Supervisor. The Supervisor would “sign them off” when the desired competency levels have been achieved. A Company “Safe System of Working” would be the official procedure that has to be complied with and no other method should be allowed. Cheers Andy
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Rank: Forum user
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A Kurdziel is correct.
When it comes to competence in using pillar drills, grinders etc, an engineering degree SUGGESTS competence but does not make it so.
Competence is a combination of knowledge, ability, training and exsperience.
A person who managed to get an engineering degree yesterday is not necessarily competent in using powered tools. Similarly, a person who does NOT have a degree is not necessarily competent.
In managing and demonstrating competence on metal working machinery, I would suggest following the guidance in the training appendix of the Woodworking ACoP, and it applies to PUWER. I can't remember the publication code.
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