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Brijja  
#1 Posted : 09 February 2017 11:03:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Brijja

Hi, I’ve recently started at a company as their H&S Manager, each Friday about 3pm one of the directors or managers walk round each floor of the business pushing a trolley and offering alcoholic drinks to employees. There are 4 floors and it’s an office environment, about 250  FTE. The drinks range from bottles of Budweiser and cider, to plastic cup of wine, no consistent measures given, and in somecases I’ve seen people with two bottles. Oh they also offer soft drinks to those who want it! I’ve spoken to the director responsible for H&S in the business and told him of my concerns about this activity, providing Alcohol.  I’m certainly not a H&S killjoy and I look at the issue and try and take a common sense approach, which hopefully I have.  I’m interested to see what likeminded H&S professional would do in shoes. Cheers.

Ian Bell2  
#2 Posted : 09 February 2017 11:12:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Sounds like a 'benefit in kind' and taxable perk. Remember to include on your annual tax return.

I would go for 4 or 5 drinks and have a pleasant train journey home.

Even if the post is true, nobody is being forced to drink, I would assume 'work' has finished by 3pm on a Friday.

David Bannister  
#3 Posted : 09 February 2017 11:15:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Are there any vacancies?

I'm afraid it does sound like a H&S killjoy approach to me. As IB2 has said nobody is being forced to drink and there is a choice between alcohol & soft drinks.

RobFitzmaurice  
#4 Posted : 09 February 2017 11:25:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RobFitzmaurice

Are there any jobs going at this company? It sounds great!

On a more serious note, I have come across similar situations in some of my workplaces. Generally, you expect a HR policy to state that alcohol must not be consumed on work premises and that employees must not work under the influence of alcohol. However, there are some workplaces where this policy may have a waiver; something along the lines of "unless the senior manager accepts that there is a social function and employees may have an alcoholic drink" (but not return to work, and certainy not operate machinery/drive).

If this is part of the workplace culture, it's often seen as a perk, but this always makes me wonder about the logic behind this perk - What happens when work finishes? Do the employees then drive home? Are they sensible enough not to drink and drive, or does temptation/peer pressure lead them to drink and drive?

The providing of alcoholic drinks shouldn't be banned unless there is a real risk involved, but I'd always question the level of responsibility of any company handing out (or expecting employees to pay for) booze. I know that we live in a much more diverse world now, and alcohol forms part of many countries' culture (business lunches in France will almost always include wine), but that doesn't mean that employees should be placed in a situation where there is a risk of alcoholic intoxication if they are then expected to work or drive.

I'd also wonder what the company's drug and alcohol policy states - After all, if a director or manager is seen to be handing out free booze, does this mean that it's ok for employees to turn up at work under the influence? It's just not a good message to send out.

Brijja  
#5 Posted : 09 February 2017 11:26:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Brijja

Originally Posted by: Ian Bell2 Go to Quoted Post

Sounds like a 'benefit in kind' and taxable perk. Remember to include on your annual tax return.

I would go for 4 or 5 drinks and have a pleasant train journey home.

Even if the post is true, nobody is being forced to drink, I would assume 'work' has finished by 3pm on a Friday.

Hi Ian, no work doesnt finish at 3pm.The vast majority drive to work, sorry to dissapoint you no nearby train stations for you.  

Brijja  
#6 Posted : 09 February 2017 11:37:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Brijja

Originally Posted by: RobFitzmaurice Go to Quoted Post

Are there any jobs going at this company? It sounds great!

On a more serious note, I have come across similar situations in some of my workplaces. Generally, you expect a HR policy to state that alcohol must not be consumed on work premises and that employees must not work under the influence of alcohol. However, there are some workplaces where this policy may have a waiver; something along the lines of "unless the senior manager accepts that there is a social function and employees may have an alcoholic drink" (but not return to work, and certainy not operate machinery/drive).

If this is part of the workplace culture, it's often seen as a perk, but this always makes me wonder about the logic behind this perk - What happens when work finishes? Do the employees then drive home? Are they sensible enough not to drink and drive, or does temptation/peer pressure lead them to drink and drive?

The providing of alcoholic drinks shouldn't be banned unless there is a real risk involved, but I'd always question the level of responsibility of any company handing out (or expecting employees to pay for) booze. I know that we live in a much more diverse world now, and alcohol forms part of many countries' culture (business lunches in France will almost always include wine), but that doesn't mean that employees should be placed in a situation where there is a risk of alcoholic intoxication if they are then expected to work or drive.

I'd also wonder what the company's drug and alcohol policy states - After all, if a director or manager is seen to be handing out free booze, does this mean that it's ok for employees to turn up at work under the influence? It's just not a good message to send out

Hi Rob, many thanks for sesinsble reply, unfortunately there are no such policies or procedures in place within the buisness. I totally agree with you comments and there are along the same lines as the conversation i had with the director. I would say the vast majority of employees do drive to work, and like many work places there is a mixed age group, which of course can brings varing levels of maturity as well a certain peer pressure culture in some departments. There are a few risks associated with this, potentail drink driving, drinking on medication, employees with alchol issues (not all employees,believe or not are open to their employer about such issues) I of realise we live in a diverse world, and i'm experiance enough to understand the potentail risk associated with providing alchol in the work place.

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 09 February 2017 11:38:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

And your concern with providing a small quantity of alcohol is what exactly (especially given alternatives are available for those not wishing to partake)?

Back before the "ban everything brigade" the board room often contained a drinks cabinet for the directors & customers and Friday lunch after getting the weekly pay packet would be taken in the pub.

Over the years the drinks cabinet vanished and a liquid lunch became frowned upon in the UK.

A sensible approach to alcohol is something that should be nurtured and developed - factories I have visited in Scandinavia and continental europe even serve alcoholic beverages in the works canteen and talking with the hosts I got the impression anyone wanting to ban alcohol outright at site would likely get hung as a culture heretic.

Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 09 February 2017 11:38:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

And your concern with providing a small quantity of alcohol is what exactly (especially given alternatives are available for those not wishing to partake)?

Back before the "ban everything brigade" the board room often contained a drinks cabinet for the directors & customers and Friday lunch after getting the weekly pay packet would be taken in the pub.

Over the years the drinks cabinet vanished and a liquid lunch became frowned upon in the UK.

A sensible approach to alcohol is something that should be nurtured and developed - factories I have visited in Scandinavia and continental europe even serve alcoholic beverages in the works canteen and talking with the hosts I got the impression anyone wanting to ban alcohol outright at site would likely get hung as a culture heretic.

hilary  
#9 Posted : 09 February 2017 11:58:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

We need to be careful that we are not encouraging the "nanny state".  I have to assume that you work with grown ups and as such, they are able to make their own informed decisions.  If they drink and drive is that the fault of the organisation?  They could leave your place on Friday, drive to the local hostelry, have 6 pints and then drive home - is that the fault of the local hostelry?  No, of course it isn't, because they are adults with free will.

This seems like a nice gesture from a nice organisation with options for those who don't want alcohol.  I wish there were more organisations around where the managers and directors took the time, trouble and expense to thank their staff every week for their contributions.

SamJen1973  
#10 Posted : 09 February 2017 12:30:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SamJen1973

Having worked for years in the public and charity sectors I can only dream of a workplace where I get free tea/coffee - never mind free alcohol!

But on a more serious note, I'd take a pragmatic view on this:  if its a low-risk office environment and there's no "operating of heavy machinery" then I think a free drink is a nice gesture that is likely to be very much appreciated by the staff.  If you wanted to be cautious, then perhaps speak to the manager to ensure the offier is restricted to one alcoholic drink and to be more consistent in the measures where it's being poured into a glass or cup.   If they want to give more than one drink, then provide unopened bottles that people can take home with them.

WatsonD  
#11 Posted : 09 February 2017 12:37:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

I guess this is one that is generally down to your own personal viewpoint. You mention in your post that a company director goes round with a trolley offering alcholic drinks then later add that soft drinks are available.

So in fact a company director goes around offering a range of drinks, including alcoholic ones.

I imagine they do this at 3pm as if they offered at 5pm most people would be keen to go home and not want to be held behind feeling like it was a burden rather than a nice gesture.

What are the company directors expectations regarding what they expect from their employees from 3pm onwards after they have imbibed (or not if they chose the soft drink option)?

Is there a limit on consumption? You mention someone being seen holding two drinks - were they holding it for someone else, or had a colleague offered them their alloted drink as they didn't want it.

What is the H&S culture like in the company generally? Is this the tip of an iceberg or just an eccentric whimsy?

If you are concerned I would suggest you look to ensure that limits are set and everyone is aware of their responsibilities, for I fear that pushing for an outright ban would leave you without allies for the bigger issues in your job.

thanks 1 user thanked WatsonD for this useful post.
RayRapp on 09/02/2017(UTC)
Clark34486  
#12 Posted : 09 February 2017 12:54:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clark34486

I'd be interested to know what the staff retention figures are? is it a workplace that has a good culture and is succesful in its field?

If you go to a public house direct from work you choose to do so, if you then drive a vehicle it is you that has chosen to do so.....the drinks (both alcoholic and non-alcoholic) are offered therefore there is an obvious choice.

There will be employees within this workplace that do not take an alcoholic drink, are they ridiculed and encouraged to drink anyway or are they naturally always offered their OJ or fizzy pop of choice?

It strikes me that the boss here simply has an affection for his people, what a great place to work 

RayRapp  
#13 Posted : 09 February 2017 12:58:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I agree with the above post, keep your powder dry for more important h&s matters for which you may have some degree of control over - cheers.

Brijja  
#14 Posted : 09 February 2017 13:13:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Brijja

Thanks for the comments, it appears some of you think i banned the drinks trolley. I did not ban it as i see it as perk or thank you, call it what you want from the Boss. I just was interested in views, and i got what i expected! what i did was to advise the HR director to provide clear guidance to employees via an internal friendly 'jazzed up' leaflet on expectations of the employees when partaking in an alcoholic drink, treat them as adults. yes I had a few concerns but as a H&S professional into a new business, one without any systems in place, I feels it’s quite natural to have some concerns. So no I’m not a H&S killjoy! Just a H&S Manager interested in others views..

thanks 2 users thanked Brijja for this useful post.
WatsonD on 09/02/2017(UTC), David Miller - Kuwait on 15/02/2017(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 15 February 2017 14:04:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38978183

Well it would appear another killjoy has struck - interesting they aren't setting a blanket policy across all employees

Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 15 February 2017 14:04:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38978183

Well it would appear another killjoy has struck - interesting they aren't setting a blanket policy across all employees

David Bannister  
#17 Posted : 15 February 2017 15:04:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38978183

Well it would appear another killjoy has struck - interesting they aren't setting a blanket policy across all employees

It is all employees. The brokers & insurers are visitors doing business in the premises. My own experience of City pubs in days gone by was that they were amongst the rowdiest, noisiest and probably most profitable pubs in the country, as were the Manchester pubs frequented by the insurance industry (home Utd matches excepted).

However just as the days of lighting up at the desk and POETS day are but fading memories, progress is inevitable but not always welcomed by those affected.

walker  
#18 Posted : 15 February 2017 15:22:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Originally Posted by: Brijja Go to Quoted Post

, to plastic cup of

Thats nothing short of a disgrace get it banned immediately!

booze tastes horrible drunk from plastic IMHO

I used to visit a manufacturer in Germany every workbench had a crate of Grolsch under it.

davidhwatkins  
#19 Posted : 15 February 2017 15:37:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
davidhwatkins

Brijja out of interest, do you partake in a free alcoholic beverage?

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