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descon297  
#1 Posted : 13 February 2017 13:34:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
descon297

Hi all,

Advice sought please. A collegue of mine has been put in a bit of sticky situation, it has come to light that the individual has had there signature forged on a couple of sets of RAMS documentation for site work while away  on holiday. The company has no specific HR on site and the company utilises an external legal support team for issues. So the problem being where do they stand legally and what would the consequences be, and who should they speak to as the external support company will obviously be more on side with the company who are paying them? 

All help and advice greatly appreciated.

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 13 February 2017 14:22:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You have a PM

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 13 February 2017 14:22:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You have a PM

RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 13 February 2017 14:30:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hmm a prickly one this. First, an investigation should take place to ascertain who forged the signature and why. The investigation needs to include whether the person who went on holiday nominated a person to sign off RAMS in their absence, otherwise it could be argued they were also at fault. 

I am not a legal eagle but it is my opinion the false signature is a breach of the Fraud Act 2006 - specifically Fraud by False Representation Regulation 2-1. Of course, nothing will come of this unless there is a serious incident whereby the RAMS were found be deficient and contributed to the incident.

A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 13 February 2017 15:44:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

This looks less like a legal issue and more an internal disciplinary matter.  There must be an investigation as it looks like someone has broken the organisation’s internal policies but you need to make sure that it is not custom and practice ( bad practice admittedly) for people to sign off documents in other people’s names.

chris42  
#6 Posted : 13 February 2017 17:18:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

I think if I were your collegue, I would record this in a letter to either my boss, the company as a whole or even this external legal company and send it by recorded delivery. That way any issues that come back, there is a record of this. He knows about the ones which were done when he was not there, but is it done other times and he has not noticed.

Obvously an internal issue, and it could even be those above him in the food chain. In fact I would say likely to be those ! who else would benefit for not having enough resource to cover this persons holidays.

Chris

aud  
#7 Posted : 13 February 2017 17:40:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

To be provocative, since when did signatures become necessary on risk assessments or method statements, or indeed anything H&S outside the scope of certain specialist licencing rules? 

I have found reluctance to get involved in assessing and recording risk findings are often down to a local 'requirement' to 'sign' the document (usually a form). Eliminate that, and the blockage is cleared. It is the employers legal duty to ensure suitable and sufficient, sfairp etc.

Signatures are internal organisational requirements (I don't know why), not legal ones. It's an artificially created 'offence'. 

It is certainly useful to know who was involved in any particular decision process, but names are more readable & useful than a signature, although I like senior managers to acknowledge the safety decisions of others in some way; that is still just internal accountability.

Stuart Smiles  
#8 Posted : 13 February 2017 23:57:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Stuart Smiles

Finding out the why of why it was needed to be done will tell him everything he/she needs to know Then after a few chats, write a policy that if someone is to sign off in place on me, that they do it with recognition of consequences etc of ra being theirs and have authorisation from powers that be. If the organisational process has to be amended to say x director signs if off and so takes responsibility, then so be it. Review the ra and see if anything is wrong then reissue with correct signature on it. (Potentially the person who really authorised it). Seems to me a symptom if someone blocking activity becayse of kack of a valid document being addressed in thd wrong wat because there was no alternative process - a checj or balance thaf sometimes may have many issues or reasons behind it. Once the process alternative route is dealt with, then honesty/integrity need to be addressed, again why will lead to the decision &timing will give who . Then an appropriate recorded conversation of appropriate process after off record discussion or lunch & you can decide to move forward together or leave. Hse used to have the investigation guide/process on their website. Worth a read for appropriate questions if needed Somewhere there may be a middle ground of doc was acailabks and written but dudn't gave up to date copy to hand so... Always worth leaving as freinds if you can as never know where the future takes you.
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