Rank: Forum user 
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So today i had my RAMS sent back saying unacceptable!! Oh dear, i thought have i sent the wrong ones? Did i miss something off?? Noone is perfect! I get a report!! ( some Managers have way too much time on their hands!!) All the ones that are acceptable, ones that other contractors, in the Managers Opinion, have rated the before risk too high!! and mine!! The reason for the return?? I had not included a before rating or indeed the matrix!!!! Do i have a disucssion with this person and explain the legalities? Would it make any difference? Nope! As the Client do as they say or dont have the work. I am increasingly frustrated that people who quite often read RAMS dont have the full understanding of what their purpose is, The Manager even failed to read them properly stating people at risk havent been mentioned ( god knows what the column Person Exposed meant to them then!!)
I have given the Manager RA's now with what was asked for, i am waiting to be told that i have over rated as i dont think i will be able to hold my tounge!!lol
When we try to ensure that Health and Safety is a part of everything we do and a workable intergration in our daily lives we come up against a lot of walls with people saying its jsut a way of creating more work,additional paperwork etc etc we try to remind people that is not what we are here for!! Clearly with Managers like this we are being dragged back. It doesnt help!!
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Rank: Forum user 
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Hi mistyhall,
I work in Oil and Gas and we hold large pre-project risk assessment reviews with clients / operatives / contractors etc... and almost every time the client wants to change some aspect of our assessment.
I just see it as part and parcel of the process; the client feels as if they have had input into the assessment process and the risks and mitigations have been discussed and mulled over.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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How else are these desk jockeys going to justify their existence?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Some clients interfere far too much about things they do not properly understand, the PC is responsible for site safety and project documentation.
A friend of mine working for a major lift contractor told me a client objected to a particular method of working in the RAMS, so to appease the client they changed the RAMS. Problem was they did not amend their system of work as well. So when a fatality occurred and they had to explain in court the disparity...not that the amended method caused the fatality, embarassing none the less.
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi,. I agree with all previous comments but would like to state that in my opinion, the HSE have never disapproved my assessments when they come under scrutiny as long as they follow the 5 step assessment and include a low, med or high risk rating. I personally like to use the old matrix of numbers (risk x hazard) show how this was achieved and know many large organisations that do this. It is important to remember that under current guidance, you are only required to score under the HSE low, med and high matrix (along with the 5 step assessment)
I feel that there may be an audit trail attached to your requirement of the before and after score as this will show how the client/business is achieving better standards (after all, quantifiable data is required to show performance) maybe this is why they are asking?
Hope this helps?
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Rank: Forum user
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Please ID who this manager is, their place e.g. internal/external and what their competence is re H&S additionally can u confirm that RAMS etc. are not created by u as u only operate as the facilitator for such things so as people can help further
My advice is to meet with the appropraite people in your organisation to confirm just who does what and to ID who is competent and as external clients are your bread and butter u need a company system in place to do what u can to accommodate them
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Rank: Forum user
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Unfortunately this happens alot, I have come across it myself. The fact that you have already assessed every reasonable perceivable risk and then prepared control measures and a safe method of working is enough and the HSE would be perfectly happy with thiis. I have had personal experience of this happening and the manager concerned had no formal qualifications or relevant experience in construction H&S and was basically attempting to make a name for themselve but failed. Sometimes it is just a power trip, sad but true.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I send anywhere between 10 and 40 RAMS per month so I get this sort of thing a lot. Yes it is annoying. However, I have learnt when to bite-back and when to fall-in-line. Trying to fight the tide of ignorance one person at a time is very draining.
I am happy (well maybe thats too strong a sentiment) to make the trivial adjustments requested when they do not compromise my RAMS in any way. But will defend my RAMS resolutely when it does
Edited by user 20 February 2017 15:43:27(UTC)
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 1 user thanked WatsonD for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks for all your great replies!! It is really frustrating however they are all singing all dancing now and with lots of lovely color so i should pass lol I am somewhat waiting to hear back as the Manager has told other contractors that they have put their before risk rating too high!! I however have a different risk matrix to the one i beleive this person is use to ie 1-5 low blah blah 5 being death mine is at 4 with 5 being multiples!!! Wonder if the Managers brain will explode!!!!
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Rank: Forum user
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BTW i had all sorts of info and blurb to send to this person however in the end i just did it and sent it although a footnote was added as to why it was only this site and last month same company different site more than happy with the RAMS!! but like you said could be audit driven, ah well some things are sent to try us lol
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