Hello My Learned Friends,

I have a couple of questions there may be easy answers too but i will ask anyway. In the field I have worked in the past FM times seem to have changed as to what is classed as Construction Work hence coming under the CDM banner although non notifiable.

For instance a electrician or lift engineer completed a simple service maybe an hour I am surmising is not classed as construction work and is covered under assessments and safe systems of work. However lets say these trades take a little longer and there is quoted works ie Change of panel for Electrician say 4 to 8 hours work and Lift engineer changing equipment including motor for 1 to 2 days. From what i was led to believe these are now classed as "construction Work" hence the CDM apply.

1. Is the above correct ?

2. If it is or isnt correct at what stage does something become "construction" work ?

3. If something is classed as "construction" work at what stage is a CPP Construction Phase Plan required ie is there a soecific point where it does require a CPP ?

Thanks in advance

Alan

I'm no expert in the construction field but what I do know is that construction work is quite clearly defined in the CDM Regulations and the duration of works has nothing to do with wither or not something is classed as construction works.  The definition of construction work can be found here on pages 10/11 and I'd say the type of work you are describing would fall under Regulations 2(e) "the installation, commissioning, maintenance,  .....".

In relation to the CPP, my understanding is that it is required for all construction projects and it's the responsibility of the Principal Contractor (or contractor where there is only one) to do this BEFORE construction works start.  The level of detail within the CPP should be commensurate with the level of risk of the project so a CPP for the types of work you describe will be very different to the CPP for building a housing estate as example.  I've never used it personally but for simply contruction projects I've often seen referrals to CITB's CDM Wizard App where it can take as little as five minutes to create a basic CPP.

I'm sure more informed members will comment in due course.

CPP must be place before you start work.

Originally Posted by: Alfasev

fscott, the works must firstly be considered “construction work” before you consider regulation 2 (a)-(e). If you consider (e) in isolation it does not make sense as all sort of thing fall into this category. For example it would make  a gas engineer servicing a boiler, the replacement a single electrical socket and institutional of a server construction work

Alfasev I had never seen the document you posted the link to and it certainly helps make defining what is and what isn't construction work a bit easier (well for me at least).  Understand what you are saying.  Every day is a learning day especially when dealing with law.

This could be cleared up if the HSE issued an ACOP. I have been on numerous seminars where they HSE say it verbally but will not put anything on paper. If you in construction day in day out that is fine, most of the time! but for FM, infrequent clients and associated businesses it not. 

My advice would be to define a list of routine maintenance activities that are done on a "business as usual" (BAU) basis. I would then define BAU works as routine and not specifically requiring CDM.

Any works that fall outside of these BAU activities I would define as construction and would expect to see a CPP etc.

As others have said ignore the times of the works and focus on what works you do that keeps the building running vs what is improvements/refurbishment/repair type activites.

Alan

First, the time someone spends doing work or the size of a projet is irrelevant to CDM. In Regulation 2 there is a detailed list of what is defined as 'construction work' including repairs, maintenance... all encompassing if go by the letter of the law. 

Something 'does not become' construction work, it is, or is not, from the start.

A CPP is required before the construction phase begins.

Originally Posted by: Xavier123

It's been dealt with before but even if construction work remit is wider than would be liked, stop freaking out about CPPs.

CPPs should be proportionate to the risks and hazards involved during the work and should be focused on protecting the workers.  Doesn't effective documented RA/MS cover 99% of the requirements of a CPP for the sort of FM work adjudged to be construction work being discussed here?  Don't start creating additional documents and calling them CPPs when it has zero additional benefit.  I don't work in construction, nor am I a construction inspector, but I can't believe that the HSE would desire such an approach.

While I agree with your main point, it is not actually what the law asks for. CDM is quite explicit regarding what is construction and the fact a CPP is required. The debate comes because it is not practical for FM providers to implement fully.  

On your last point, my dealings so far with HSE have led me to conclude that actually it would depend on whether they were trying to make something stick or not. 

The whole gravy train of trying to pretend that things fall outside the definition of construction work is rolling again.  It started in 94 and the arguments roll on.  If you are excluding people from the work area in some way however minor then a temporary site is created. 

Secondly any CPP or equivalent however you label it must also cover things such as First Aid, Contact names, Welfare arrangements, hours of work etc.  So any decent management plan is going to define these for any particular location in addition to the various task risk assessments.

Originally Posted by: boblewis

The whole gravy train of trying to pretend that things fall outside the definition of construction work is rolling again.  It started in 94 and the arguments roll on.  If you are excluding people from the work area in some way however minor then a temporary site is created. 

Secondly any CPP or equivalent however you label it must also cover things such as First Aid, Contact names, Welfare arrangements, hours of work etc.  So any decent management plan is going to define these for any particular location in addition to the various task risk assessments.

Bob, always good to get your erudite input. However I cannot fully agree with your comments. Prior to the 2015 iteration CDM was generally consistent and proportionate to the work. Major projects would have been Notifiable and the extra duties like the provision of a CPP, H&S file, CDM-C (now PD) would have kicked in. Indeed, for major projects CDM 2015 is not really a problem. 

If you take for example, a simple roof repair job using a sub-contractor for the erection of a standard scaffold, all the duties in CDM 2015 now apply, including the Appointment of a Principal Designer and H&S File - it's a nonsense!

I do agree a decent set of RAMS would cover most of the measures required for a CPP and therefore this aspect of CDM 2015 is not too onerous if one creates a CPP in this fashion. Just the added bureaucracy especially for client who has to ensure the PC has a CPP in place.

Worth adding in the context of this and concurrent "chair pod" threads that HSE, having tangled themselves up with their own definitions, also expect CDM to be applied to the construction of  a TV set within a studio and to the stage set of a travelling theatre company.

(e.g. http://www.hse.gov.uk/entertainment/cdm-2015/production-set-studio.htm)

Aye, right. What a mess.

Xavier

Everything is fine and dandy until a serious incident occurs, then watch them scatter when the regulators start their investiagtion and worse, lawyers pull everything apart. Do not delude yourselves.