I'm inclined to agree with your management.

Maybe the problem is with your auditors overstepping the mark.

This is likely to get me banned, but most external body auditors are doing that job because they are not good (pragmatic) enough  to work in a real business environment.

When BS 5750 launched it was marketed as the standard everyone needed to have to do business in the future.

Since then it has evolved in to ISO 9001 plus various incarnations and yet despite the early sales pitch there are many companies successfully trading without having a management system certified to ISO 9001.

There are IMHO two reasons for being certified - pride in the busisness management practices and a desire to benefit from the discipline OR a piece of paper on the wall to email to (potential) customers who ask for it.

Unless you are in an industry which uses PQQ three line tick box how often have you actually been asked for your certification, and even then does it really make that much difference as to whether or not you land the contract?

Your management are probably trying to balance the £X,000 per year cost against the benefits to the buiness of broadening burden.

I was asked in a previous role what would be the impact of not renewing certification - the only down side would be in defending to the few customers asking why having held the certifcate we had not renewed.

Hi, 

Having had said discussions, and been asked for information from third parties that was "for the auditors", I understand both sides of the position. 

In terms of the standard, a discussion around the plans of the business that are able to be discussed is always beneficial with the auditors, as it encourages trust, and also can allow the audit team to be involved, perhaps a solution would be to get the auditors to meet the directors "in private" so that they can ask questions, and also have the opportunity to have a confidential discussion without fear of plans "getting out"/into competitors' foresight. without tight control, such documents circulate, and I am sure you can appreciate this in itself is a business risk. 

The directors will also potentially be aware of GDPR and associated with that, the need to classify and control access to information about plans, which may also involve commercial competition for premises, and again as such be extremely careful about playing too far away from chest in case of deal not coming off or aspects not being done till they are done (i.e. funding, prices agreed, solicitors,contracts etc). It may be worth keeping shtum, however at the same, where plans can be shared, they provide visibility and confidence to staff, customers etc that a plan is in place and being acted upon.(something I was regularly accused of). There potentially could also be bigger fish to fry in terms of profit, banks, customers, and it could be down the list in their mind. 

I always found the meetings with Auditors to be extremely valuable as a way of concentrating knowledge of the organisation, and engagement with the auditors to be really valuable, however again engagement is the question with your team, and it appears from what you have said, that they haven't got the why of why it's important.

As such, I would suggest you talk to your auditors and ask about a "planning meeting" with the directors or invite to a seminar to discuss with others how and why they are using the systems within their companies, or speak to the auditor organisations' sales team to discuss options. 

If you can't get engagement, you may well ask whether and how they intend to manage such issues without a system, how would they defend the company and selves from h&S accident/prosecution? or alternatively if they speak to customers, would they drop you & why. They could also look at a list of customers, what standards they have, and how they will answer future queries on what's your system to manage x,y, and z. 

How do I demonstrate reasonable practicability to HSE? Sit there and explain to someone on a tape recorder, how does it look in a witness statement? How will future tenders go - no ssip, need to do individual chas section on every tender. 

It may be an opportunity for an honest discussion as to how you are currently getting through to them, as it appears that there is a gap between message sent and message understood. 

please give them a copy of this and ask them what they think. (you could even ask to sign for it...) Realistically, the worst that can happen is a discussion to get through the 5 whys of why not? 

Good luck and if they need to contact please do pm/dm me for email as to what they say. 

thanks

Stuart