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Lee Mac  
#1 Posted : 27 April 2017 08:21:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Lee Mac

Hey Folks,

It's been a while since I was last on here, too many years to mention, hope everyone is keeping well.

I need a wee bit of advice from my fellow profs.

My employer has tasked me with coming up with a proposal to provide access to paint an old WWII Airport Hangar.

The roof iss fragile and the tin is in poor condition so when the painting commences, several sheets of tin will end up being replaced. 

I have thought of scaffolding (designed) but I am sure you can appreciate the old hangar is very very long and will end up costing a complete fortune but if it has to be then it will have to be as the work will be fully controlled. Due to the bottom of the hangar being adjacent to the neighbouring property I'm not sure how effective a MEWP will be either.

If anyone has any sensible solutions they will be gratefully received.

Many Thanks.

RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 27 April 2017 08:52:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Being as the roof is so fragile it looks like your best option is to use mobile working platforms or possibly bespoke scaffolding with casters so they can be easily moved from one location to another. A MEWP (scissor lift) might be an alternative or used where access for the platforms may be difficult.

If you do need to access the roof then I suggest either crash decks or netting.

Lee Mac  
#3 Posted : 27 April 2017 09:27:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Lee Mac

Thanks Ray,

Due to the angle of the hangar roof being completely round (bending from one side of the building up to the top and down to the other side) and no space available at one side due to the building being tight against the neighbouring property, would unfortunately rule out the possibility of scaffolding on castors.

Due to the fragile nature of the building I couldn't permit anyone to stand on it even with nets as the sharp tin falling with an operative into the net would create another hazard.

My only thought springing to mind are designed scaffolding to span the building which of course is going to end up very costly. 

I am based in NI and the hire companies which we have contacted have confirmed that their MEWPS aren't large enough to provide the amount of access we require.

chris42  
#4 Posted : 27 April 2017 09:47:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Could you support the roof with scaffolding from the inside in sections, then have a running line from end to end on the top to anchor a person to or create fixed anchor points and have an abseiler do the painting etc ( all with it being fully supported from underneath. Or something like that.

Just a thought

Chris

Lee Mac  
#5 Posted : 27 April 2017 09:57:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Lee Mac

Chris,

That's a very good idea, and if I felt the tin would be structurally sound enough I would definitely run (excuse the pun) with that idea. However my concern is that the tin may break if weight were added which could result in the absailer's leg, or another body part, going through the tin and being injured.

I had entertained the idea of a boom lift but unfortunately there isn't one big enough over here that would address the length of the building, hence my thoughts on designed scaffolding, which of course is going to end up costly.

chris42  
#6 Posted : 27 April 2017 10:19:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Lee Mac Go to Quoted Post

Chris,

 However my concern is that the tin may break if weight were added which could result in the absailer's leg, or another body part, going through the tin and being injured.

By fully supported I had in mind a plywood or similar proforma matching the curve directly under (touching) the wriggly tin. so a big semi circle with scaffold at its heart. Then work section at a time moving the internal structure and reassmbling it in next position.

Chris

Lee Mac  
#7 Posted : 27 April 2017 10:23:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Lee Mac

Oh I see what you mean.

Yeah that could possibly work, I have a meeting with the ops manager on Fri and will run your idea past him.

It will certainly be more cost effective than mine.

Thank for your help on this.

Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 27 April 2017 10:37:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

CDM Regulations apply to the Project as you describe it.

From a competency perspective, respectfully, you're out of your depth and CDM demands that competency.

There are expert companies out there who specialise in building and refurbing this type of barrel-vault construction and time and money would be well spent in engaging with them.

First stage would be competent survey to confirm which sections need to be replaced. Then you need to find out if replacement sections can be sourced at a practicable cost. Installation could involve winching sections up and over using stays and bracing ropes, securing to purlins from inside and weather sealing from outside - but please go and ask the expert principal contractor!

Don't let people tell you there's no mobile access that can reach - you bet there is. Painting (last stage) can be done with rollers from MEWP baskets.

aud  
#9 Posted : 27 April 2017 10:40:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Fill the hangar with hay / straw bales (or similar) to form a continuous and solid floor below the roof.

biker1  
#10 Posted : 27 April 2017 10:40:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

This might be a silly question, but if the structure is in such a fragile state, should you be trying to re-paint it? You might find that once you start the re-painting, the structure starts to crumble, so the money you have spent on means of access will have been wasted, as there might be no realistic alternative to demolishing it. It is already at least 70 years old, and not the most robust of structures when it was built. Nothing lasts forever.

Ron Hunter  
#11 Posted : 27 April 2017 11:00:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at some of the suggestions here. Be assured that the job can be done without human weight bearing contact with the outside of the roof - which is unlikely to be made of "tin".

biker1  
#12 Posted : 27 April 2017 11:24:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I'm not an expert on aircraft hangars Ron, but I did wonder about the description of the hangar as 'tin'. Since so much metal was commandeered by the government in the second world war, for the war effort, I would have thought something a bit more substantial would have been used. Galvanised sheeting comes to mind, but perhaps this wasn't available.

I was just making the point that the question was about how to do something, whereas the question of should it be done didn't appear to have been considered.

chris42  
#13 Posted : 27 April 2017 12:20:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Just a name to a product type

Extract 

Galvanised steel sheeting is also known as sinusoidal, corrugated iron or wriggly tin.

http://www.steelroofsheets.co.uk/categories/corrugated-roofing-sheets/

Chris

Lee Mac  
#14 Posted : 27 April 2017 14:56:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Lee Mac

Thanks Guys you all have tried to be helpful and I do appreciate taking the time out.

BTW it is tin, nothing more but definitely less with the amount of holes in it!

@Ron, obviously you have got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning with "don't let them tell you..", "I don't know whether to laugh or cry..." and "you are out of your depth" these are not very helpful to say the least.

I am over 30 years in H&S, from advisor, to manager and now director. All of our projects have and continue to fall under CDM. People make such a mountain out of CDM, it's not rocket science, my advice is read the regs, and the guidance, and read again it will eventually bed in.

My motto is if you haven't something positive to add then try to avoid adding anything.

My work is never the same, from high end clean rooms refurbs & new builds, to high rise demoltions, asbestos removals, soil contaminations, to new builds incl churches, hospitals, apartments, housing to an airport including several hangars and now to painting and refurbishing an old airport hangar. 

We employ subcontractors to address the work, I was merely testing the water to see what others may have done.

@Everyone else thanks again for the positive proposals put forward it is very much appreciated.

Ron Hunter  
#15 Posted : 27 April 2017 15:25:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

You're very welcome.

As for a roof made of tin sheet - nope, sorry I don't buy that.

A Kurdziel  
#16 Posted : 28 April 2017 08:13:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: Ron Hunter Go to Quoted Post

You're very welcome.

As for a roof made of tin sheet - nope, sorry I don't buy that.

Tin currently sells ( according to the London metals exchange) at nearly $20000 per tonne. If it was tin I would sell it and buy a new building.

ODonnell19538  
#17 Posted : 02 May 2017 09:50:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ODonnell19538

From your description, I would guess that this is a Miskin Blister hangar.  The corrugated steel sheets forming the external envelope are usually secured to the main structural frame using J bolts on the top side of steel angles, so a combination of both interior and exterior working can be aticipated when it comes to replacing sheets. 

My suggestion would be to consider doing the work from MEWPs  in conjunction with a team of industrial rope access specialists.  I would also be inclined to look at the provision of safety netting suspended across the entire structural frame due the concerns about the fragility/integrity of the existing sheeting.

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