Hello

I am looking for a solution to prevent wedging fire doors  within domestic houses for assisted living it could be argued that as these are not commercial properties with no common parts therefore the RRFSO does not apply however  staff are employed to assist residents with bathing, dressing etc. so it  could be classed as a workplace.

The main culprits are living room  and kitchen doors which are found wedged open during the day                    I have been ensured that a close down procedure is carried out at night where all non-essential electrics are turned off all wedges are removed and doors are closed.

All houses have standalone hard wired  smoke/heat detection

 It has been suggested to alleviate the wedging of doors that acoustic operated hold open devices are installed

I am yet to  be convinced of the practicalities of  these, as attaching them to the base of doors in question could easily be hit and miss as to them receiving enough information for them to actuate in a fire situation  (as they need a minimum of 65dbA for at least 14 seconds to operate) and they are also battery powered  therefore  they could become a very expensive door wedge.

I would prefer a more robust system such as mains powered electromagnetic hold open devices as seen in care homes and hotels etc. which fail safe but is it practicable to install in a person’s home and would they work on an activation of a single smoke alarm or would  they need a full LD1 or  LD2 system to be installed

Has anyone used such systems in domestic properties and if so do they work or are there better solutions out there  

Key question then is "Is this a workplace". IMO no, it is a domestic residence. (Although duties will arise with items of work equipment (as defined) e.g. lifting aids.

We have to be mindful of the free will of the resident or tenant and of potential mobility and capability issues. There are many older people who would struggle to open and pass an ordinary domestic internal door, never mind one with a closer on it. This is also a problem for those in flatted accommodation with common stairwells. The front door of their property is built to such a standard that many residents cannot get in or out without assistance. How safe is that?

Yes, modern building standards will require internal fire doors and closers in flatted dwellings above first storey, but the decision as to wedging these open surely rests with the tenant?

Originally Posted by: grader

.............. Are your residents aware of the risks they create by wedging fire doors open? Lack of security may also be risk.

I would be tempted to talk to my residents and try to change the behaviour of wedging doors open 

What people seem to forget is that many residents in 'assisted living accommodation' are elderly or infirm. 

Self closing fire doors in the accommmodation are the equivalent of a locked door to many, as they are not strong enough to open them - in effect they are trapped by the fire doors, and if internal are fitted, they may be unable even to leave the room they are in.  In many respects, in this situation fire doors are not fit for purpose.

Another problem is the entrance door into their 'flat'.  Again, if it is a self closing fire door they are either trapped inside or outside of their 'flat'

My 95 year old mother-in-law lived in such accommodation, and her 'self closure device was often disconnected to allow her to get in and out -  Common practice [by relatives'] for many residents in the accommodation.

What is needed is a fire door than can be easily opened by elderly/frail residents -

Don't complain about them using wedges [they have to live there], just come up with something that is practical to them!!!!!!!

Edited by user 19 May 2017 08:14:38(UTC)  | Reason: tidying up a bit

Speak to the residents - find out what the issues are / why do they wedge the fire doors open in the first place?

They don't wedge them open because they are elderly or infirm... carry out a root cause analysis

Once you have the root cause - you can formulate an articulate, suitable response

Originally Posted by: Invictus

Originally Posted by: grader

Speak to the residents - find out what the issues are / why do they wedge the fire doors open in the first place?

They don't wedge them open because they are elderly or infirm... carry out a root cause analysis

Once you have the root cause - you can formulate an articulate, suitable response

We speak to all our residents, within reason, the points I made came from them, not really sure who your comment is aimed at.

I think they are aimed at me.

I agree they don't wedge them open because of age/infirmity - the root cause [probably] is that the doors are to difficult to open [especially if you are 'weak/old/infirm']

And don't get me on how do you use the doors if you use a walking aid

Root Cause - doors not fit for purpose