Rank: Forum user
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Hi All,
Held a community open day where staff volunteered to marshall the event.
Member of staff fractures ankle. Their task was to marshal the football academy ('have a kick around' with a football coach) - queue control, point of contact etc.
From speaking to persons who were there, the individual was allegedly having a kick around during a quiet period (working outside of the remit of the RA as their function is to marshall only). However the accident form has been submitted as fell over onto ankle whilst walking across grass.
I wouldn't have reported the accident if the person was having a kick around, but now the story has changed, would I have to report this?
Would appreciate your input on what is a difficult topic at best..
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Rank: Forum user
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Out of interest ke5238 were the staff being paid to marshal for you or when you say volunteer, were they there for free? If they were being paid, they are technically at work so I would anticpate the need to do a RIDDOR as fractures are a specified injury (unless to toes, thumbs or fingers), as per HSE '....the accident is work-related[1] and it results in an injury of a type which is reportable'.
If they were a member of the public or someone not at work, RIDDOR requires accidents to be reported '..... if they result in an injury and the person is taken directly from the scene of the accident to hospital for treatment to that injury. Examinations and diagnostic tests do not constitute ‘treatment’ in such circumstances'.
Logic would place voluntary workers in the “persons at work” bracket but I do remember reading at some point (but can't find the reference now) that HSE say: “For the purposes of reporting under RIDDOR a worker would be a person under a contract of employment. As this is unlikely to be the case for most volunteers, they should be classed as members of the public when it comes to reporting.” In other words a volunteer should be regarded as a “person not at work”.
At one point the HSE had a publication called "Charity and Voluntary Workers - A Guide to Health and Safety at Work" (but not sure if this still exists, I used to refer to it for voluntary work I did), but even in this the requirement to report RIDDOR accidents involving volunteers remained unclear although their "Good practice" guidance, recommended the reporting of RIDDOR accidents to volunteers as if they were 'employees', whilst stating within the narrative that this is the case.
Not sure this helps you, but could you perhaps do a RIDDOR report and make clear in the narrative somewhere that they were a volunteer and not being paid (assuming they weren't)? I don't think the fact that there is confusion over how it happened (i.e. when they were having a kick around or when they were walking across the grass) is relevant, as they were there because they were volunteering for you.
When I've queried with HSE in the past about reporting things, they have generally advised report it anyway and if it's not required, they just ignore it - in other words, better safe than sorry!
Maybe there are some HSE officials on this forum that could help you out?
Edited by user 05 June 2017 14:23:20(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi,
Thanks for the reply and comments,
Normal staff member, not a volunteer etc., but were just helping out at an open day of one of our premises. So technically, they were at work.
The problem is there are 2 stories i'm still trying to get to the bottom of.
Gripe number 1: Reporting something that is caused by horseplay out of their remit of marshalling the event. I dont think this would be reportable.
Gripe number 2: If it was that the person tripped over on grass (as per the report), I presume this would be classed as a work activitiy under the marshalling duty, therefore reportable. However I am loathed to report because of my prior knowledge, informal discussions which makes it clear that horseplay caused the accident. But this is what has been recorded on the accident form....
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Rank: Forum user
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I think regardless of which story is true and regardless of whether the marshalls are classed as employees or MoP, it's not reportable.
Was the injury caused by a work activity? From the information you've given, I would say not.
You say he/she tripped on the grass. Did they trip over their own feet? The ball? If these, then this would not be reportable
If the pitch was unmaintained and was full of holes and trip hazards, then I would probably look further into it, as it may be that the condition of the "workplace" contributed towards the accident, but if they just tripped, then it looks highly unlikely that this would be a work related injury
Other posters have lots of experience in charities and volunteering related H & S, I'm sure they will be able to give an informed answer about the status of the marshall.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: swebster  Out of interest ke5238 were the staff being paid to marshal for you or when you say volunteer, were they there for free? If they were being paid, they are technically at work so I would anticpate the need to do a RIDDOR as fractures are a specified injury (unless to toes, thumbs or fingers), as per HSE '....the accident is work-related[1] and it results in an injury of a type which is reportable'.
If they were a member of the public or someone not at work, RIDDOR requires accidents to be reported '..... if they result in an injury and the person is taken directly from the scene of the accident to hospital for treatment to that injury. Examinations and diagnostic tests do not constitute ‘treatment’ in such circumstances'.
Logic would place voluntary workers in the “persons at work” bracket but I do remember reading at some point (but can't find the reference now) that HSE say: “For the purposes of reporting under RIDDOR a worker would be a person under a contract of employment. As this is unlikely to be the case for most volunteers, they should be classed as members of the public when it comes to reporting.” In other words a volunteer should be regarded as a “person not at work”.
At one point the HSE had a publication called "Charity and Voluntary Workers - A Guide to Health and Safety at Work" (but not sure if this still exists, I used to refer to it for voluntary work I did), but even in this the requirement to report RIDDOR accidents involving volunteers remained unclear although their "Good practice" guidance, recommended the reporting of RIDDOR accidents to volunteers as if they were 'employees', whilst stating within the narrative that this is the case.
Not sure this helps you, but could you perhaps do a RIDDOR report and make clear in the narrative somewhere that they were a volunteer and not being paid (assuming they weren't)? I don't think the fact that there is confusion over how it happened (i.e. when they were having a kick around or when they were walking across the grass) is relevant, as they were there because they were volunteering for you.
When I've queried with HSE in the past about reporting things, they have generally advised report it anyway and if it's not required, they just ignore it - in other words, better safe than sorry!
Maybe there are some HSE officials on this forum that could help you out?
The Charities Safety Group (of which my employer is a member) asked HSE for a deliberation on this. They replied 'For the purposes of reporting under RIDDOR a worker would be a person under a contract of employment. As this is unlikely to be the case for most volunteers they should be classed as members of the public when it comes to reporting.'
The quote features on the front page of the CSG website, and as far as we are concerned it's HSE's final position on this rather vexed question,
John
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 1 user thanked jwk for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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I think the question is - was it work-related? Slipping over on grass whilst walking normally is just a life event. And I rarely report sports injuries - I was once told by HSE that they only wanted to know if there was a problem with the pitch (e.g. poor maintenance) or the way the game was being played, Injuries from normal tackles, missing the ball etc weren't reportable - so I don't.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks jwk (John!) for finding the source of the bit I had remembered reading! I think now that it may well have been on CSG website that I saw it (I used to be in charge of a volunteer unit!).
Edited by user 07 June 2017 14:08:10(UTC)
| Reason: Typo
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